A shocking lack of safe gun handling practices

[Fire Dog]

Do F Class Matches adhere to a strict “bolts out rule” such as we have in Short Range Benchrest?

They do in OZstrlia, Bolt removed, scorer/range officer visual clearance, Chamber Flag then in action, removed from firing point with barrel up.
Bench Rest, rifle brought to bench in container, removed with barrel pointing down range, between events during target placement, rife stood up, bolt open, all positions clear before closing range to go forward. Rifle removed from bench after being cleared by RO, Chamber Flag, container brought to bench, rifle placed in container with muzzle pointing down range, then removed from bench.
That procedure also applies to Pima Shooting Complex in Az.

 

[jelenko]

between events during target placement, rife stood up, bolt open, all positions clear before closing range to go forward

This. Shooters must be away from the rifles when people go down range.

 

[JEFFPPC]

A lot of lack of common sense in this thread.

 

[Kevin57]

We should not accept any risk that is controllable when the risk occurrence could result in the lost of someone's life.

Stop driving your car. You can't control the risks! Don't eat fried foods it contributes greatly to heart attacks which often result in the loss of someone's life, and for heaven's sake never ever drink a beer! cirrhosis kills don't you know!
Controllability when humans are involved is a completely silly and unattainable concept.

 

[drop_point]

I was hunting prairie dogs with a gentleman that pulled his bolt out of his rifle to make it "safe". He put the bolt back in to case the rifle and worked the bolt two or three times to make sure the chamber was clear. Then he closed the bolt and pushed the trigger to relax the firing pin. The round nearly blew my head off. I had burns along the left side of my face and couldn't hear for several days. Fortunately, I had eye protection on. The round was a .223 WSSM.

His extractor had failed and he didn't ensure the chamber was clear. It almost cost me my life. I guess I'm just a safety sally and not pointing your rifle at somebody and using a chamber flag is too much to ask.

 

[drop_point]

Stop driving your car. You can't control the risks! Don't eat fried foods it contributes greatly to heart attacks which often result in the loss of someone's life, and for heaven's sake never ever drink a beer! cirrhosis kills don't you know!
Controllability when humans are involved is a completely silly and unattainable concept.

You can mitigate risks. For instance, you can ensure your car has functional brakes, you can ensure you have safety belts that function, you can ensure your airbags are functional.

Routine labs can help identify how your cardiovascular system and liver are doing and catch problems early.

Not pointing your rifle at somebody isn't too much of an ask.

 

[dellet]

It doesn’t matter what the rule is, it can be taken too far, or not taken seriously enough.

I was completely reamed for “muzzle discipline and sweeping the shooting line”. Had dumped a case full of powder in the barrel. I was cleaning the mess up. I have to admit to being guilty as charged.

In my defense the rifle was a take down, the barrel had been completely removed from the action. Sometimes common sense needs to prevail.

 

[jelenko]

Stop driving your car. You can't control the risks! Don't eat fried foods it contributes greatly to heart attacks which often result in the loss of someone's life, and for heaven's sake never ever drink a beer! cirrhosis kills don't you know!
Controllability when humans are involved is a completely silly and unattainable concept.

That's not the point.
Of course there are uncontrollable risks that we have to live with.
But, we should not accept controllable risks.

 

[Kevin57]

Nobody including me said that. I believe in safety 1st, 2nd and 3rd. Read my posts. But the amount of hysteria about perceived threats from rifles with chamber flags and without bolts is idiotic.
I'm done with this...The amount of PMS whining and rules mongering is why some of the people at matches are insufferable. I generally ignore them. We all know who they are. They have to feel important by telling their stories and impressing you with how safe (experienced) (intelligent) (progressive) they are.
Stay at home, whine about how poorly the matches are run. Worry about everything in your life. You can't control everything...if you need to control everything...stay home. Your insane need to control everything is silly and annoying. These are the same asshats that gave us trigger locks.

Guys, buy a bolt holster, take your bolt out after the last trigger pull and put it in the holster. You NEVER have to worry again!!!!! Neither do I. But let's all tell stories and wring our hands about controllable risks and not fix anything. Let's all be the ex-gunny Seargeant self-appointed range officer and annoy all the folks that are doing the right thing.

KAMALA in 2028! she will fix everything.

 

[jelenko]

Controllability when humans are involved is a completely silly and unattainable concept.

This is a very dangerous attitude. It can lead to simply throwing your hands up in the air.
I'm sure that's not what you mean, but the statement itself sounds like - "Nothing we can do about it except accept whatever happens".

 

[LHSmith]

In IBS rules, benches must be cleared at the end of "cease fire"-which is to include NO firearms are to remain on the bench. In the event of a cease fire called during a match relay ; such as a loose target, a competitor must let the RO know he has a round in the chamber and is then allowed to discharge the firearm downrange before the target crew is allowed to go forward. In the event that a competitor has an issue with their gun and must leave the bench to work on it- the RO is to be notified and a safety officer is to accompany the shooter to a "safe area" while attempting to resolve the issue. Cartridges can not be loaded prior to "commence fire" -not even allowed on the firearm loading ramp. At the end of every relay, one must raise your hand with the uninstalled bolt to the RO while still seated.

 

[Kevin57]

This is a very dangerous attitude. It can lead to simply throwing your hands up in the air.
I'm sure that's not what you mean, but the statement itself sounds like - "Nothing we can do about it except accept whatever happens".

In IBS rules, benches must be cleared at the end of "cease fire"-which is to include NO firearms are to remain on the bench. In the event of a cease fire called during a match relay ; such as a loose target, a competitor must let the RO know he has a round in the chamber and is then allowed to discharge the firearm downrange before the target crew is allowed to go forward. In the event that a competitor has an issue with their gun and must leave the bench to work on it- the RO is to be notified and a safety officer is to accompany the shooter to a "safe area" while attempting to resolve the issue. Cartridges can not be loaded prior to "commence fire" -not even allowed on the firearm loading ramp. At the end of every relay, one must raise your hand with the uninstalled bolt to the RO while still seated.

Correct...is that rifle without a bolt a danger to anyone?

 

[quest450]

Correct...is that rifle without a bolt a danger to anyone?

to @jelenko it seems to be but he/she seems to be overly dramatic

 

[Kevin57]

This is a very dangerous attitude. It can lead to simply throwing your hands up in the air.
I'm sure that's not what you mean, but the statement itself sounds like - "Nothing we can do about it except accept whatever happens".

You are not reading my posts or are simply laboring under the delusion that you can control everything and everyone. If you really can control all controllable risks you must have supernatural abilities.

Buy a bolt holster...use it. At least if I will know if we ever shoot at the same match you will be controlling one controllable risk.

Life is dangerous.

 

[jelenko]

You are not reading my posts or are simply laboring under the delusion that you can control everything and everyone. If you really can control all controllable risks you must have supernatural abilities.

Buy a bolt holster...use it. At least if I will know if we ever shoot at the same match you will be controlling one controllable risk.

Life is dangerous.

I am not. You seem to be mis reading my statements.

 

[Kevin57]

I am not. You seem to be mis reading my statements.

I'll bite. How do you control all controllable risks when humans are involved?

Can you prevent all accidents, lapses in human attention? Idiots that leave bullets in their barrel from a previous short load and blow themselves up 3 benches down? Maybe you will take it on yourself to lecture all of us on the controllable risks and educate all of us on how we can 1000% eliminate them, (your words.)

 

[K22]

If there in one thing that I cannot tolerate at the range, it is unsafe gun handling.

I spend a lot of time at both the pistol and rifle ranges at 2 clubs and I see irresponsible gun handling almost all the time despite members having to go through a safety orientation when joining. It's bad enough to see it with recreational "weekend" shooters but for competition shooters that is just downright awful.

When I competed in NRA Precision Pistol matches, firearm insert flags were required. We also had a "red line" (about 10 feet behind the firing line). You have to be back of the "red line" before anyone went down range.

It's unpleasant, but unsafe handlers need to be confronted albeit diplomatically if possible.

 

[drop_point]

There are four universal rules. If they are followed nobody gets hurt. If only one rule is broken, nobody gets hurt.

 

[jackieschmidt]

I can give a very real world happening from over 20 years ago that ended in Benchrest Matches being cancelled at the American Shooting Complex in West Houston.

Glenn Newick had been holding NBRSA and Club Benchrest Matches for several years. He had an agreement with the Range Manager that the right side Benchrest Range was his on Match Days, and the NBRSA rules governing the handling of Rifles was in play. This section of the range was separate from the everyday public shooting line.

We had a Club Match one Sunday Morning, and the Range Manager was out of town. During the Match, one of the other employs came over.

He saw Rifles in cleaning cradles, on loading tables, and being carried by competitors. He immediately shut down things and demanded to know what the heck was going on. Glenn tried to explain to him that the arrangement he had with Range concerning safety, and he was running the Match according to NBRSA protocols.

He was having none of it. Everybody said “screw this” packed up everything and left.

Due to the ignorance of that employ, that ended the Benchrest Matches at American Shooting Center. The Range Manager later said that due to liabilities, we could no longer have Matches that were run under the safety rules of the NBRSA, and would have to obey all range cease fire rules and gun handling protocols.

That ended that.

 

[Kevin57]

If there in one thing that I cannot tolerate at the range, it is unsafe gun handling.

I spend a lot of time at both the pistol and rifle ranges at 2 clubs and I see irresponsible gun handling almost all the time despite members having to go through a safety orientation when joining. It's bad enough to see it with recreational "weekend" shooters but for competition shooters that is just downright awful.

When I competed in NRA Precision Pistol matches, firearm insert flags were required. We also had a "red line" (about 10 feet behind the firing line). You have to be back of the "red line" before anyone went down range.

It's unpleasant, but unsafe handlers need to be confronted albeit diplomatically if possible.

OK, more stories. If it is truly awful and you or the match director are not doing anything to correct this "downright awful" gun handling...why are you putting yourself in such an unsafe situation?