Frustration with Quickload

[leclairk]

Let me start by saying I understand every gun is different and I need to check for pressure signs when loading to make sure it's safe. Let me also say I'm virtually certain the numbers I put in are good. I've been reloading for about 5 years but this is the first time I have used QL. I did an H2O test to get grain capacity, ect. I got QL to help streamline the process of finding an accurate and safe load. I'm loading for a 7 PRC. According to QL my load with 68.5g of H1000 would shoot at 2750fps. It doesn't. It shoots at 2850. As was suggested I made some very very minor tweaks to Weighing Factor, burn rate, and specific heat to get my velocity to match up. I checked the new powder calculations with a couple of other bullets I tried and the velocity matches up. My problem is pressure. According to QL I could run up to 71.5g of H1000 which would be way over pressure considering I had pressure signs at 69.5 (again, I know every gun is different and I need to work up slowly), but the whole reason I got QL was to help ensure what I was doing was safe. What am I missing? I want to run a ladder for 160g TMK's and I'm left scouring the internet to help me determine a load to start with. That's exactly what I had hoped to avoid by buying QL.

 

[bguinn]

lot to lot variation of h1000 has been problematic at times. It may not be QL.

 

[stymie12000]

Does the barrel length on QL match your barrel?

 

[esromvre1]

I’m with you. There needs to be some better training videos on how to use this program

 

[Chris Edmondson]

I have a rifle which also defies QL, 6.5 Creedmoor. After fiddling with parameters, even to the absurd in some cases, it was still a head scratcher. The issue for me is a load projected to achieve 2635 fps when I'm measuring (Garmin & Labradar (remember those?)) 2735-ish average. Anyway, looking at the bottom of the charge table, a +10% lot variance appears to be enough to explain my velocity anomaly. This barrel is near end-of-life so I'm not going beat myself up any longer looking for an answer.

Hope this helps you .

 

[mgunderson]

These programs are tools. They are not a substitute for real data. Awesome for what they can do and no they aren't perfect.

 

[Krogen]

I'd be wary about changing powder parameters in Quickload unless you have a full understanding of what they mean. If you don't, you're just guessing. Chances are, despite powder lot variations, the parameters are pretty close. Seating depth needs to be right, it makes a difference in bottleneck cartridges. Note that I said "depth." The amount of space available inside the case is important. Using an equivalent bullet can get you into trouble. Just because it's the same weight and LOA is the same, bullet protrusion inside the case can vary. Also, you measured water capacity. Good to check that! Quickload is self-contradictory. In one place we're told to level the water with the case mouth. Elsewhere we're directed to fill to the brink of overflow. I found the latter measurement technique is most accurate in my loads. Also, use a fired case, not a sized case. As a final note, Renae at Quickload is a great help. Very responsive and knowledgeable. Shoot him an email and ask for some assistance.

 

[leclairk]

I have a rifle which also defies QL, 6.5 Creedmoor. After fiddling with parameters, even to the absurd in some cases, it was still a head scratcher. The issue for me is a load projected to achieve 2635 fps when I'm measuring (Garmin & Labradar (remember those?)) 2735-ish average. Anyway, looking at the bottom of the charge table, a +10% lot variance appears to be enough to explain my velocity anomaly. This barrel is near end-of-life so I'm not going beat myself up any longer looking for an answer.

Hope this helps you .

View attachment 1646989

Would this suggest that a person should just adjusting burn rate to make velocities match? As Krogen pointed out, I'm completely guessing when I change the other parameters. This seems to indicate burn rate variations is the reason for changes in velocity.

 

[jelenko]

I've never used QL. But have spent a bunch of time with GRT.

GRT has a feature that automatically makes adjustments to a couple of powder parameters once you enter actual velocity data from a specific load.
You do need to choose the right chamber, your H2O capacity, OAL and bullet length.

 

[SeabeeKen]

Like @jelenko I use mainly GRT. I stopped using QL all together due to strange variations.
MEASURE EVERYTHING THAT IS MEASURABLE. Like Gordon said, garbage in, garbage out. These programs are tools and are simulations only. Never assume they are the Gospel. Variations in powder lots, brass, bullets, and rifles make measuring every detail a necessity. Bullet diameter, length, case capacity, every detail. A given powder will burn differently in various cartridges and rifles. I have many powders saved in GRT because of how they burn in a specific cartridge. Its interesting to see where they place in the GRT burn chart. Software is no replacement for reloading manuals. There is no replacement for actual testing which is why I no longer share QL or GRT predictions with other people, nor do I share my data

I should also add, there are many other things that QL may not account for such as cylinder gap in revolvers, gas operated systems that vent to the atmosphere, primer impulse pushing bullet into lead before powder ignites etc

 

[RustyInBend]

I bought and calculated everything using QuickLoad ... until I figured out that the regular published sites (like the Hodgdon reloader site) is just more accurate to bracket good charge weights and measurements. Haven't used my QuickLoad for a couple of years, and I'm doing just fine. The CD does make a nice coaster though.

 

[Chris Edmondson]

Would this suggest that a person should just adjusting burn rate to make velocities match? As Krogen pointed out, I'm completely guessing when I change the other parameters. This seems to indicate burn rate variations is the reason for changes in velocity.

Wish I knew the answer with certainty, adjusting burn rate does seem plausible though.

The reason why this rifle/load was a puzzle to me is QL was really spot-on with prior rifles and loads. I'll be moving into a new lot of H4350 soon, maybe it'll be different.

 

[leclairk]

This is all great information and a great discussion. Thanks for all the input. I also had great luck with GRT but it doesn’t have a profile for 7PRC because they aren’t updating the app. I also thought QL would be more accurate. I think I will take Krogen’s advice and send him an email asking what he suggests if velocity doesn’t match up.

 

[Krogen]

Here is a most excellent thread started by 222Jim about tuning Quickload. It's rather deep . . .

Granted, it involves tweaking parameters, but offers a thought out method to do so.

Calibrating (“Truing”) QuickLOAD

I’ve documented my methodology to calibrate (“true”) QuickLOAD that gives me predicted velocities that are typically within +/- 5 fps of my measured velocities. The foundation of this method is, for a given handload (caliber, powder & charge, and bullet), to enter the obvious factors (i.e...

forum.accurateshooter.com

 

[Webster]

Let me start by saying I understand every gun is different and I need to check for pressure signs when loading to make sure it's safe. Let me also say I'm virtually certain the numbers I put in are good. I've been reloading for about 5 years but this is the first time I have used QL. I did an H2O test to get grain capacity, ect. I got QL to help streamline the process of finding an accurate and safe load. I'm loading for a 7 PRC. According to QL my load with 68.5g of H1000 would shoot at 2750fps. It doesn't. It shoots at 2850. As was suggested I made some very very minor tweaks to Weighing Factor, burn rate, and specific heat to get my velocity to match up. I checked the new powder calculations with a couple of other bullets I tried and the velocity matches up. My problem is pressure. According to QL I could run up to 71.5g of H1000 which would be way over pressure considering I had pressure signs at 69.5 (again, I know every gun is different and I need to work up slowly), but the whole reason I got QL was to help ensure what I was doing was safe. What am I missing? I want to run a ladder for 160g TMK's and I'm left scouring the internet to help me determine a load to start with. That's exactly what I had hoped to avoid by buying QL.

Never liked ccomputer programs to find loads. Sounds like you fudge the numbers to force it to give you numbers you like? Unfortunitly many popular calibers are not in the manuals. Good luck.

Just checked. If you do a Google search for (7 PRC load maps) a bunch of good info comes up.