Still stuck on reloading my tight chamber 6BR

[Pareto]

I've posted before about issues I've been having with reloading a supposedly no neck turn match 6br HV rifle I bought off of Shooter's Corner.

Even though I used a Wilson bushing fl sizing die and the reloaded Lapua cases easily passed Wilson's 6br case gauge, some half or more of my reloaded cases weren't chambering at all in my gun. After comparing the neck of a fired case that was resized, it seemed that the neck needed to be full length resized. Some on this forum also suggested mild neck turning which I did. After contacting Wilson, I had my die adjusted by sending them a new piece of brass that chambers, a resized piece of brass that chambers and a couple of pieces that didn't chamber after being resized.

After several weeks wait, the good people of Wilson sent me back the modified sizing die. So I try it out, and now the bullets will generally chamber, but the bolt often closes with difficulty. However, a bigger problem arises. Even when it chambers, half or more of the time, I cannot extract the cartridge (this is testing with an unloaded case). If I put a case of unfired Lapua in, no problemo. As far as I can tell the unfired and once fired cases are nearly identical in neck thickness, with the neck turned resized case being a hair under the Lapua, the shoulders are pushed back to a trivial difference. The only difference that's on the order of a few thousandths is the width at the base of the case above the rim, where the resized case is about 3/1000s thicker than the unfired Lapua case.

Is this an issue of the sizing die still? Am I going to have to do something like have my chamber reamed slightly by a smith? Or make a cast or something to measure the chamber and send it in with my sizer for another fix by Wilson?

Suggestions?

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

Have you colored a tight problem case and chambered and extracted it a couple times to see where the rub/interference fit is ?

 

[fisherman987]

Check to see if you need to trim your necks back. Sounds like overall length of brass could be the problem.

 

[NZ_Fclass]

All/most of these issues can be solved by measurement - which can be difficult. I hope that you have a decent caliper -a 6 inch Mutitoyo is a great investment for handloading - as is a micrometer. Decent digital ones can be found at reasonable prices - I use one, manual scale obviously, that my father used, which probably dates to WW2.

If empty factory Lapua brass will chamber and extract - then you have a set of base measurements. Compare to a fired one. Then compare those dimensions to one of your fired/sized, problem cases.

You can also view reamer prints on SAAMI's website - remembering that they are chambers, not cases- so allow clearance.

I use a standard, non bushing Redding die for BR, with the decapping rod/ expander ball removed. I set my neck tension with a mandrel. I'm currently using Alpha brass. but previouly used Norma. Without any neck turning, I have 3 thou of clearance, i.e. a .269 neck diameter

 

[Pareto]

All/most of these issues can be solved by measurement - which can be difficult. I hope that you have a decent caliper -a 6 inch Mutitoyo is a great investment for handloading - as is a micrometer. Decent digital ones can be found at reasonable prices - I use one, manual scale obviously, that my father used, which probably dates to WW2.

If empty factory Lapua brass will chamber and extract - then you have a set of base measurements. Compare to a fired one. Then compare those dimensions to one of your fired/sized, problem cases.

You can also view reamer prints on SAAMI's website - remembering that they are chambers, not cases- so allow clearance.

I use a standard, non bushing Redding die for BR, with the decapping rod/ expander ball removed. I set my neck tension with a mandrel. I'm currently using Alpha brass. but previouly used Norma. Without any neck turning, I have 3 thou of clearance, i.e. a .269 neck diameter

Thanks. I'm trying to measure, but with all calipers and ogive measurements I am having difficulty getting perfect consistency. I have colored cases and that's how I found the issue was the neck, but I'll try recoloring to see how the case is getting stuck.

 

[Doom]

First question. Was this brass shot in a different rifle. If so the base sizing is most likely the issue. You have a choice in that case. Scrape the brass or invest in a small base die if someone makes one.

 

[Fast14riot]

Almost sounds like a 6br Rem chamber and trying to feed it 6br Norma spec brass.

 

[boltfluter]

If you have a few dies on hand try running your cases into a .243 die. Or maybe a friend has one. Works great as a small base die. A .30-06 die or a .308 die will work as well. .270 or .25-06 dies are worth a try as well. Most any cartridge based on a .473 head may work. Good luck and keep us posted. It will size the base without touching the shoulder. This is the key.
Paul

 

[Ruger15151]

My 6BR tends to form a donut in the neck where it is not being sized with the bushing, If you are using an expander mandrel and running it all the way through the neck, you are likely pushing the donut out which makes the outside diameter (above the neck shoulder junction) of the case larger than the neck area in the chamber. That is why a new piece of brass chambers without issue. There is no doughnut

Unfortunately, once this happens the only way to push the donut to the inside is with a full length non- bushing die.

You can still use your bushing die for sizing and an expander mandrel if you want after that. You just need to adjust the expander mandrel so it stops before getting to the doughnut on the inside of the case neck.

Hope that helps.

 

[Rtheurer]

My 6BR tends to form a donut in the neck where it is not being sized with the bushing, If you are using an expander mandrel and running it all the way through the neck, you are likely pushing the donut out which makes the outside diameter (above the neck shoulder junction) of the case larger than the neck area in the chamber. That is why a new piece of brass chambers without issue. There is no doughnut

Unfortunately, once this happens the only way to push the donut to the inside is with a full length non- bushing die.

To the OP.
Miss matched Sizing die to a Tight Neck Chamber. Happens more than folks think.
I like the answer above as the culperate. The radius between the Back of the Neck and the top of the shoulder can really give a guy some fits some times.

Rather than fight with this every time. I would do two things. Either put a new barrel on with a known Chamber that fits my type of shooting and reloading style, or Spin the existing barrel off and have it rechambered. Life is to short for continued problematic issues like this. Order a reamer that fits one of Lynwood Harrels Full length die and spend your time at the range shooting tiny groups.

 

[243winxb]

it seemed that the neck needed to be full length resize

Wilson instructions.

How are L.E. Wilson Inc. Bushings Different?
Reloaders who want a firmer grip on the bullet or who have harder brass in springing back more would select a smaller bushing. We
make our bushings in .001” increments. The size marked on them refers to the middle of the bushing, which is *reamed with a .003”
taper*. Since the case neck only reaches the middle, a slightly tighter sizing can be achieved by turning the bushing over, with the
marking facing toward the case or down inside the bushing. This is mainly an emergency step to be taken if the brass has hardened,
springing back more, and will no longer hold the bullet; or for fine-tuning the sizing to provide less additional “squeeze” than using the
next smaller bushing in the normal way.

Looks like Wilson bushings are very different to my Redding bushing? My Redding can be adjusted to size only 1/2 of the necks.
Not so with Wilson bushings?

*Wilson reamed with a .003" taper. *

Size your necks all the way to the shoulder.

https://patents.google.com/patent/US5649465

 

[Pareto]

Wilson instructions.


Looks like Wilson bushings are very different to my Redding bushing? My Redding can be adjusted to size only 1/2 of the necks.
Not so with Wilson bushings?

*Wilson reamed with a .003" taper. *

Size your necks all the way to the shoulder.

https://patents.google.com/patent/US5649465

It has already been adjusted by Wilson so it fully sizes the necks, but that hasn't completely solved the issue. Now the rounds chamber, but half do not extract.

 

[kevinbritvec]

I've posted before about issues I've been having with reloading a supposedly no neck turn match 6br HV rifle I bought off of Shooter's Corner.

Even though I used a Wilson bushing fl sizing die and the reloaded Lapua cases easily passed Wilson's 6br case gauge, some half or more of my reloaded cases weren't chambering at all in my gun. After comparing the neck of a fired case that was resized, it seemed that the neck needed to be full length resized. Some on this forum also suggested mild neck turning which I did. After contacting Wilson, I had my die adjusted by sending them a new piece of brass that chambers, a resized piece of brass that chambers and a couple of pieces that didn't chamber after being resized.

After several weeks wait, the good people of Wilson sent me back the modified sizing die. So I try it out, and now the bullets will generally chamber, but the bolt often closes with difficulty. However, a bigger problem arises. Even when it chambers, half or more of the time, I cannot extract the cartridge (this is testing with an unloaded case). If I put a case of unfired Lapua in, no problemo. As far as I can tell the unfired and once fired cases are nearly identical in neck thickness, with the neck turned resized case being a hair under the Lapua, the shoulders are pushed back to a trivial difference. The only difference that's on the order of a few thousandths is the width at the base of the case above the rim, where the resized case is about 3/1000s thicker than the unfired Lapua case.

Is this an issue of the sizing die still? Am I going to have to do something like have my chamber reamed slightly by a smith? Or make a cast or something to measure the chamber and send it in with my sizer for another fix by Wilson?

Suggestions?

Having trouble ejecting unfired rounds (or resized brass) is almost always a headspace issue. Your shoulder probably needs to get bumped another .002". Just turn the die down another 1/16 to 1/8 turn and resize some cases to see if that helps.

If that doesn't work, I would try pin gages to determine the exact neck diameter of your chamber. You may have a tight neck chamber that requires neck turning. If so, shooting any ammo that hasn't had the necks turned will be unsafe, maybe even causing a major catastrophic failure.

IMO, you need .004" of neck clearance, .002" per side as a minimum. Some people have gone tighter, but I won't.

 

[searcher]

To the OP.
Miss matched Sizing die to a Tight Neck Chamber. Happens more than folks think.
I like the answer above as the culperate. The radius between the Back of the Neck and the top of the shoulder can really give a guy some fits some times.

Rather than fight with this every time. I would do two things. Either put a new barrel on with a known Chamber that fits my type of shooting and reloading style, or Spin the existing barrel off and have it rechambered. Life is to short for continued problematic issues like this. Order a reamer that fits one of Lynwood Harrels Full length die and spend your time at the range shooting tiny groups.

Maybe a good idea to send Harrel's a few fired cases to see if they have a better-matched die first?

 

[243winxb]

The shell holder must contact the bottom of the full length die, at the top of the stroke. Some presses have to much spring to get the job done.
In photo, brass is not being sized correctly.

 

[William Vogel]

I don’t can over my press when sizing brass. Dye the brass and find the interference. Remove the ejector and extractor. Install the brass and close the bolt. Open the bolt and lean the barrel vertically. The brass should fall out of the chamber. If it doesn’t it’s interference fit and needs addressing. Dye the case and find the interference.

 

[Pareto]

So, to answer multiple questions in a single post. I bought this used and it had fired a couple hundred rounds using Lapua brass first and I have verified that it shoots well with NEW Lapua, Peterson, and Norma brass. It is the reloads that have issues half the time. None of the brass were first fired in other guns. I have made sure to maximally resize the brass. In fact in some cases I've used several different presses to reload it. In one case, I started sizing with a Lee turret press, found that the brass wouldn't chamber, and then resized it in an RCBS single stage with cam over. Still getting stuck brass. I have used both the Redding and Wilson dies back to back, even if I'm overworking the brass just to test if that would fix the problems to make sure it was sizing properly. I have tried with and without annealing. No dice.

The most likely culprit at this time seems to be that my chamber is a little too tight and either requires adjustment or perhaps just some abrasive to smooth it out. I will take the gun to a gunsmith. Wilson told me they can't adjust my sizing dies any further and suggested I have a smith look at the chamber.

 

[TTE]

I've posted before about issues I've been having with reloading a supposedly no neck turn match 6br HV rifle I bought off of Shooter's Corner.

Even though I used a Wilson bushing fl sizing die and the reloaded Lapua cases easily passed Wilson's 6br case gauge, some half or more of my reloaded cases weren't chambering at all in my gun. After comparing the neck of a fired case that was resized, it seemed that the neck needed to be full length resized. Some on this forum also suggested mild neck turning which I did. After contacting Wilson, I had my die adjusted by sending them a new piece of brass that chambers, a resized piece of brass that chambers and a couple of pieces that didn't chamber after being resized.

After several weeks wait, the good people of Wilson sent me back the modified sizing die. So I try it out, and now the bullets will generally chamber, but the bolt often closes with difficulty. However, a bigger problem arises. Even when it chambers, half or more of the time, I cannot extract the cartridge (this is testing with an unloaded case). If I put a case of unfired Lapua in, no problemo. As far as I can tell the unfired and once fired cases are nearly identical in neck thickness, with the neck turned resized case being a hair under the Lapua, the shoulders are pushed back to a trivial difference. The only difference that's on the order of a few thousandths is the width at the base of the case above the rim, where the resized case is about 3/1000s thicker than the unfired Lapua case.

Is this an issue of the sizing die still? Am I going to have to do something like have my chamber reamed slightly by a smith? Or make a cast or something to measure the chamber and send it in with my sizer for another fix by Wilson?

Suggestions?

.003 towards the base (guessing the .200 line) would make it not extract (or hard chamber or not chamber).
May need a small base die. Or run it through another die, as suggested above. That's cheaper than a trip to the smith.

You may have been chasing the wrong problem. You were guessing neck thickness and base to datum ....... you may still have those problems. But sizing at the 200 line might just sort things out.

 

[Fast14riot]

I use a gutted 45ACP die as sort of a ring die for my 260AI brass if I get clickers (R700 problems).

 

[Fire Dog]

.003 towards the base (guessing the .200 line) would make it not extract (or hard chamber or not chamber).
May need a small base die. Or run it through another die, as suggested above. That's cheaper than a trip to the smith.

You may have been chasing the wrong problem. You were guessing neck thickness and base to datum ....... you may still have those problems. But sizing at the 200 line might just sort things out.

RollSizer time…
Just works where no other die, small base or otherwise, can touch…
Sizes that “Dead Zone” area from the top of the extractor groove to just above the 200 line.

“Done washed Ma Klickers and hard chamber’n an’ stick’n cases away…. Hallelujah Brother!”