What twist for a Mueller .22rf barrel

[TRSR8]

I also wouldn't hesitate to try a 16.5 twist Benchmark. I have some experience with one and it shoots very very well.

I’ve had’em, could not tell at all from a 16, plus about 1/2 of which come out about 16 1/4”.
Had BM’s right to 17 3/4”. Frankly, could not really see anything with that either.
Way back when you saw Suhls being shot, some hot ones sported 19 twists, yet after all that, here we are back to good old 16’s.

 

[dutch14]

For those of us who remember toy tops and gyroscopes, the faster rpm you started them out at the longer they remained upright and stable. The same would be true for bullets at longer ranges say beyond 100Yds.
However, if the bullet is not symmetrical it won't be stable no matter what range or twist. Then you get garbage in garbage out. A twist faster than 16 might be an improvement at longer ranges.

 

[Frankr]

I think there is a lot to it. Rocket science.
Have you ever seen one day the ammo You were shooting was just spot on. Incredible? Then another day it was not ? If you have then you know that there is truth in it. I don’t actually know the exact air density temperature variations where. Or exactly where a change would occur. But in layman’s terms cooler weather slower ammo needs just a little more twist to be stable. Hot weather a little faster ammo a little slower twist. I have been told early spring a 15 twist is tough to beat. Naturally granted it a good barrel, good ammo ect and mid late summer a 17 can be tough to beat. This information comes from those who have done it. Most of the time a 16 is it. I know that there was a unique BR Rifle that shot a lot of perfect targets and I believe set some records that was a 15 twist. Naturally being buttoned could it have been off slightly? IDK. All I do know is it was the most accurate BR Rifle maybe in history. It had shot a few times 750 75X’s outdoor. You never hear anything or much about it. I wonder why everyone ain’t shooting a 15 twist. I don’t know all the details but just maybe it was a slower lot of ammo and a lot of them targets were shot in the spring. IDK.
But yea I believe that different twist with different ammo on different days can prove superior to a 16. It actually has been proven and done. Now knowing when to use one over a 16 I’m not sure anyone really knows, So just shoot the 16.

 

[Mt.Boy]

I just bought a benchmark 3 gr mtu contour. Gonna have it put together with a repeater action. Pretty much just something different from my single shot bench guns to play with. I have had Shilens, mullers, lilja and 1 bartlein. But this is my first benchmark and the only one I could find without waiting a long time .was a 1-15 twist. Anyone have any experience with them. Should the 15 give up any accuracy to a 16 or 16.5. Thanks.

 

[TRSR8]

I think there is a lot to it. Rocket science.
Have you ever seen one day the ammo You were shooting was just spot on. Incredible? Then another day it was not ? If you have then you know that there is truth in it. I don’t actually know the exact air density temperature variations where. Or exactly where a change would occur. But in layman’s terms cooler weather slower ammo needs just a little more twist to be stable. Hot weather a little faster ammo a little slower twist. I have been told early spring a 15 twist is tough to beat. Naturally granted it a good barrel, good ammo ect and mid late summer a 17 can be tough to beat. This information comes from those who have done it. Most of the time a 16 is it. I know that there was a unique BR Rifle that shot a lot of perfect targets and I believe set some records that was a 15 twist. Naturally being buttoned could it have been off slightly? IDK. All I do know is it was the most accurate BR Rifle maybe in history. It had shot a few times 750 75X’s outdoor. You never hear anything or much about it. I wonder why everyone ain’t shooting a 15 twist. I don’t know all the details but just maybe it was a slower lot of ammo and a lot of them targets were shot in the spring. IDK.
But yea I believe that different twist with different ammo on different days can prove superior to a 16. It actually has been proven and done. Know knowing when to use one over a 16 I’m not sure anyone really knows, So just shoot the 16.

There have been exactly zero 75X aggs. ever shot Frank.

 

[Frankr]

That’s not true. I have seen pictures of the Rifle and targets. I believe it had shot some ARA targets also. If you ever come to Fairchance to shoot again. I would ask if if you could see all the documentation. Several people have the information. You really never hear anything about it. Although I feel like I had seen a picture of the Rifle before somewhere. I have asked and wonder where the Rifle is. It is highly specialized. Weird like.

 

[Tony K Harper]

That’s not true. I have seen pictures of the Rifle and targets. I believe it had shot some ARA targets also. If you ever come to Fairchance to shoot again. I would ask if if you could see all the documentation. Several people have the information. You really never hear anything about it. Although I feel like I had seen a picture of the Rifle before somewhere. I have asked and wonder where the Rifle is. It is highly specialized. Weird like.

Frank, I think you may be thinking of Denny Antonious. He had targets that showed 75 or more straight Xs. He also had signatures of witnesses. But I don't think he ever did it in a sanctioned match. He did however hold several "world Records" that were certified.

I remember Denny down at Piney Hill. He would sometimes sleep in the building. We often found him asleep at the bench, draped over his rifle, ankle deep in spent brass. He probably shot all night long. It was always interesting to see what he was going to shoot.

TKH

 

[TRSR8]

Thanks Tony for clearing that up. Shot with Denny a couple of times in Hagerstown, always had something wild. I remember he reached out to Hart for a barrel about 3” dia. But they had no steel that big. Lord only knows how much he spent on those experiments.

 

[Frankr]

Yes. Thanks Tony. That is it. Yea I knew it had set some records but wasn’t sure exactly. I know you never really hear about it and I kind of wonder where the Rifle’s are today.

 

[dgeesaman]

I have a 12 twist Muller in my Sako Quad and at the time I was indifferent to the extra twist. Now in hindsight for my 50-100y shooting I’d have preferred 16 twist. If there is an advantage to the 12 it would seem to be happening at ranges longer than I shoot.

 

[Frankr]

Yes. Thanks Tony. That is it. Yea I knew it had set some records but wasn’t sure exactly. I know you never really hear about it and I kind of wonder where the Rifle’s are today

I have a 12 twist Muller in my Sako Quad and at the time I was indifferent to the extra twist. Now in hindsight for my 50-100y shooting I’d have preferred 16 twist. If there is an advantage to the 12 it would seem to be happening at ranges longer than I shoot.

there has been a lot of testing done and I don’t think they could ever prove that the 12 outshot the 16 even at longer ranges. If I remember correctly one day the 16 would win one day the 12 would and so on.
I personally feel the 12 is way too fast for that bullet. It really doesn’t have the bearing surface for it. A 14T is as fast as I would go.
For BR shooting a don’t think 15 or 15.5 is out of the question.

 

[Mt.Boy]

Does anyone use a 1-15. Looked online trying to find some info on them. Wasn’t much out there. Mine won’t be a benchrest gun so thought I would give it a try

 

[Frankr]

My.Boy I think it will be fine. My take on it and also my experience tells me it’s a slight difference that when you show up at a match the wind conditions at hand will probably out weigh it. So even if was a little more stable or accurate your battle with the wind conditions could out weigh it to where you couldn’t see a difference. That also echoes what others have experienced. So unless it was just not shooting at all and you switched to a 16 or 17 and it was just hammering in the same conditions, might be the only way you would notice it. My thoughts on it.

 

[Mt.Boy]

My.Boy I think it will be fine. My take on it and also my experience tells me it’s a slight difference that when you show up at a match the wind conditions at hand will probably out weigh it. So even if was a little more stable or accurate your battle with the wind conditions could out weigh it to where you couldn’t see a difference. That also echoes what others have experienced. So unless it was just not shooting at all and you switched to a 16 or 17 and it was just hammering in the same conditions, might be the only way you would notice it. My thoughts on it.

Thanks

 

[colder]

Wow! Hell of a lot more information than I ever thought. I’m learnin a bunch here, Thank you! TP

 

[Williwaw]

Wow! Hell of a lot more information than I ever thought. I’m learnin a bunch here, Thank you! TP

And some of it is true. LOL