Winchester, Pre 64 Model 70, Bolt stuck in gun.

[Will Henry]

That little gas block is not a pre-64 part, although I have retrofitted it to some pre-64's. At this point, we seem to be left with a stuck case. Depress the extractor, behind the collar, to move the hook out far enough to slip past the head of the case (this is a maybe. You might have to reach up and pry the front of the extractor out wards. Be a little careful. These are all valuable parts). If you can take the extractor out of play, you have eliminated another factor. WH

 

[AlNyhus]

With the rifle butt on the floor, rotate the bolt to where it stops and hold some good pressure against it. Have another person put a rod into the barrel so it goes into the case and against the bottom of the case. As you try to rotate the bolt, have them tap down on the rod. -Al

 

[Blue-Mule]

30-06.
It was 180 grain sst. Bought them 2 weeks ago, but I'll check lot# against recalls.

Extractor claw...feels loose, but i guess that doesn't mean case could still be culprit.

Now you guys have me thinking...
When I lift bolt, soon as the angled face on bolt handle starts interfacing with bevel in receiver, it starts to bind.
That should be the point the claw on extractor starts pulling case out of chamber...right?
Yesterday I tried forcing things a little, taking care not over do it....I could feel a little bit of friction someplace...like metal galling.( which seemed odd, since i didn't use THAT much force)
Maybe it was brass and claw sticking together and all this is the case stuck.

I'll focus there a bit.


My fear has been some small pin, screw or part broke off INSIDE bollt and is binding things up. Not so sure now, the more I look at drawings and how this bolt actually works, along with the movement i see.


I'm no gunsmith but i've tinkered enough with guns and machines that I think I have a good understanding of this stuff, most of it ain't rocket science and I know my limits and error towards caution... but never seen anything like this.


Thanks again for the ideas and help!

 

[Blue-Mule]

Mystery solved.
Brass stuck in chamber was the culprit.

As scratched up as that brass is, I have to believe there's rust or debris of some sort in the chanber.

I don't have a bore scope, but have access to one to confirm issues there.

Long backstory, but this and other guns of mine were stolen a few years back. Obviously recovered, but not before some neglect and abuse .

I ran brush and patches down bore not long ago, but didn't scrub chamber...so yeah, this is an issue.

I really appreciate all the help and suggestions, you guys figured it out for me.

Last question for anyone that's seen over pressured cases....look at the base area on that case...besides scratches, it looks like it's bulged some...yes?

 

[AlNyhus]

That bulge isn't abnormal in a factory chamber with factory ammo. Handloaders can get ahead of that by using cases that measure a bit larger at the back end.

How did you finally get the bolt open?

 

[Will Henry]

That looks real ugly alright. Almost appears to be beyond polishing. You would have to set it back a couple of turns to clean that up. Then the barrel wouldn't fit the stock. WH

 

[shortgrass]

So much for the "gun being cleaned spotless a month ago"

 

[243winxb]

Looking like high pressure to me.

1."That bulge isn't abnormal in a factory chamber with factory ammo". True. Undersize factory round, fired in maximun chamber.
2 & 3. The brass has expanded fully to the chamber. No springback of the brass. The marks running a round the brass is a sign. Chamber does not have to be dirty.

over pressured cases

Photo of case head will tell us more.


I have seen M70 in 3006 with bold frozen in place. Stock split. The reloads used had an excessive case trim length. Crimped bullet in case, when chambered.
Rife was completely trashed.

 

[243winxb]

High pressure, hard extraction.

Case body not springing back after firing. Case still in contact with the chamber wall. Rim damaged.
Bolt actions will have Hard Bolt Lift.

The m70 case head will have a different ejection mark then this Remington one. Note, as pressure went higher, the primer fell out as the pocket expanded from high pressures.

 

[Blue-Mule]

So much for the "gun being cleaned spotless a month ago"

And there hadn't been a jackwad all this time...Congrats!

You pretty sure you know my cleaning routine?
You've inspected this gun?
You care to continue with your constructive criticism?

 

[Blue-Mule]

That bulge isn't abnormal in a factory chamber with factory ammo. Handloaders can get ahead of that by using cases that measure a bit larger at the back end.

How did you finally get the bolt open?

After looking more at what was moving and when things started to bind, I became convinced it was indeed the case.
I KNOW that can happen, though I've never seen it myself, not with factory loads nor handloads.
I set action with the barrel pointed up and poured kerosene down bore till it flushed out what might flow out, drained and repeated.
Then i sprayed liquid wrench penetrating oil down bore 3 times, letting it seep out the first 2 times as i moved action around to try to get as even dispesion as possible. On the third oiling, i put rod down bore and into case and tapped on rod to try to loosen as much as possible while my kid wiggled bolt back and forth. That seemed to gain a little bit of movement and convinced me this was the answer.
Took rod out of bore, action in padded vice and used rawhide mallet to carefully hit bolt, gaining a little movement each time till it popped loose.

I HATE using force on stuff like this, since its a great way to ruin things, but i was convinced this was the problem after enough looking, thinking and fiddling with it.

Looking at the casing i was pretty horrified thinking the chanber was rusted to hell, despite gun having cleaned gun not long ago.
After i posted my success, i took a .45 bore mop wrapped in flannel and coated with Iosso and scrubbed like hell...no rust, some carbon, though not excessive IMHO.
Cleaned out paste with kerosene, flushed barrel and action out, blew down with air compressor and have C4 soaked .410 mop sitting in chamber overnight to see what comes out tomorrow.

Since gun is completley apart now, gonna solvent brush everything clean tomorrow and reassemble. Then i'll buy some other ammo and see what happens.

 

[Blue-Mule]

High pressure, hard extraction.

Case body not springing back after firing. Case still in contact with the chamber wall. Rim damaged.
Bolt actions will have Hard Bolt Lift.

The m70 case head will have a different ejection mark then this Remington one. Note, as pressure went higher, the primer fell out as the pocket expanded from high pressures.

No dimples like that on case head, just cupped a little from force of extraction.
The scratches around case and a bit of carbon near top of neck.
I see whats going on in your pictures, but i dont see any signs of that rearward pressure on case. Instead of a outward dimple, there would be a line on the case head from slot cut in bolt face...i dont see that.
Just now, using jewlers loupe, those scratches dont really look like scratches. Hard to explain but they almost appear like embossed lines pressed outward ( not indents )into the brass. Like you stated, brass expanding out ( into machining marks? ) and getting ridges pressed into the brass.

 

[372xp]

That case shows a very rough chamber, it looks like someone cleaned it with sandpaper. THAT IS THE PROBLEM.

 

[Blue-Mule]

That case shows a very rough chamber, it looks like someone cleaned it with sandpaper. THAT IS THE PROBLEM.

TBH, i figured the barrel was junk, thus it sat for years.
My Old man took game in half the western states, Canada and S. Africa with it.
Its been shot more times than i can imagine at targets in the 70s-80s.
He was a WW2 vet and did his time in the Pacific, was a DM...i doubt he abused it.

It was his favorite gun and always in the back of my mind as something to get going again.
Life has a funny way of getting in the way of things and the gun sat for decades before i retired and finally cabin fever got me digging it out and here i am.
I have a "local" smith ( whom some here would definitely know)whom I've talked to about rebarreling it and just shooting it again was sort of the start of proving to myself the condition before i go that route.
I'll get a bore scope in there when i get the chance and go from there....

 

[AlNyhus]

I strongly suggest bore scoping the chamber area and barrel before firing it again. You don't want to dodge that bullet again and risk damaging the extractor.

Prior to doing that, consider plugging the barrel ahead of the chamber and fill the chamber with a mild solvent like Hoppe's #9 for a day. If you get a lot of color, repeat as needed.

Hopefully, the chamber can be polished with some 320 and brought around.

Good shootin' -Al

 

[ISS]

I am no expert on OM 70's; although I have owned about 71 over the past 55 years or so. Still have a dozen or so, factory and custom.
That said, I cannot think of anything to cause the issue you are facing. New barrel time sounds like the safest option.

Good Luck!

ISS

 

[DR_2297]

Just happen to have this kicking around. Off of a late 50’s Mod 70 Featherweight.