Question for the more experienced loaders and serious shooters.

[jelenko]

You have to be very analytical about everything you do and constantly work to find things to correct.

!!

 

[ELR LVR]

This is just an off the wall question about things one can do to eliminate variables while determining accuracy during load development. While watching some Winning in the Wind YouTube videos last night as well as a few others, something popped into my head.

Do any of you experienced reloaders that shoot a lot, but mainly for fun or hunting, turn down the trigger weight while testing loads to maybe rule out one more variable, and then turn them back for normal use? The competition shooters probably already have ounce weight triggers or pulls less than 2 pounds but I'm not on that level or anywhere close. I shoot hunting rifles and all of my firearms but one register 3- 3 1/2 pounds of pull and it is just a taint under 3 but it can go down to 1 1/2 if I want.

While watching Winning In The Wind and seeing some of his groups in the .15-.3" range I got to wondering just how little of a trigger pull he has shooting those tiny tiny groups from his heavy custom guns on a high tech front rest.

I'm just a freshman loader with 40 years of country boy shooting experience with off the shelve rifles. As I've aged, I like to think the quality of my gun purchases has improved, but in the end they are all production rifles, not custom builds.

My gut tells me to leave them like they are because I'm used to them, but curiosity says what if it improves group size significantly. I haven't read about or seen the first person mention it, but I also know that trigger pull and grouping is a real thing.

What is y'all's opinions?

No, I leave them where I like them
Most of my rigs are around 8 oz to 1 lb, even varmint or hunting rigs
a couple bench guns are at 2 oz
Once you get used to triggers 1 lb or under, you really do get a feel for them
Even with a 2 oz trigger, that is about the weight of 6 Quarters resting on your finger
you can definitely feel that much pressure even though it is not much
You can actually feel the weight of 2 quarters if you place them on your finger
(Try it sometime, start placing quarters on your finger tip until you feel the weight of it on your skin)
I apply my finger to the side of the trigger first to get ready.....
.... before then easing it around in front (simply curling the finger really) and applying pressure
this prevents an accidtenal oops for me, rather than if I just place my finger on the front initially.
I will say, Timney used to make a great Target Trigger (501T) with a straight knurled bar for a shoe
The knurling really helps to facilitate placing your finger on the side and actually applying forward pressure while you are aiming before then easing the trigger back.
If you are turning down your trigger to test groups
That is a viable method
However, if you are turning it right back up for field use,? how are you ensuring you will shoot the same size groups or provide the same level of shot placement out in the field?

 

[Nimbus73]

You have to be very analytical about everything you do and constantly work to find things to correct.

Ironic you said that. I posted a question recently on rokslide asking a question about being ANALytical (lol).

Reloads, just how anal are you?

Please bear with my wordiness on this discussion but I'm really curious on just how good is good enough. I began following this site as well as others in my quest for knowledge as I am almost 1 year into the reloading rabbit hole. I probably spend more time accumulating "stuff" at this point and...

rokslide.com

 

[Nimbus73]

If you are turning down your trigger to test groups
That is a viable method
However, if you are turning it right back up for field use,? how are you ensuring you will shoot the same size groups or provide the same level of shot placement out in the field?

I have not ever considered turning them down until the other night when I started wondering if anyone actually does it. I don't have any desire to start manipulating any of my triggers just for load development, but I do like the idea that Boyd Allen posted about having an interchangeable trigger to drop in just for load development. If I were to ever seriously contemplate the practice of a light trigger for that purpose, his method might be the approach I would consider.

 

[ELR LVR]

I have not ever considered turning them down until the other night when I started wondering if anyone actually does it. I don't have any desire to start manipulating any of my triggers just for load development, but I do like the idea that Boyd Allen posted about having an interchangeable trigger to drop in just for load development. If I were to ever seriously contemplate the practice of a light trigger for that purpose, his method might be the approach I would consider.

I didn't read his method but it does make sense to ensure the load itself is optimized.
Trigger discipline practice and follow through must be very honed regardless of trigger weight
----------------------------Meaning
Great groups can be shot with a 2 lb trigger with perfect trigger discipline,
I have practiced a method I came up with to hone trigger discipline until I got it nearly "Perfect"
Meaning NO movement/deflection when checked with an indictor on the tip of the barrel
This really allowed me to consistently shoot the smallest groups I could humanly possibly shoot
I'll include a Vid of me explaining this
(Timestamp 6:42 shows me doing this with a pistol and 3# trigger so you can see what I mean)

Pictured below is that resulting group in the video while executing the practiced technique I described.
Not the tightet group in the world BUT.....
Understand that is a load development group, I had not yet arrived at my load but was honing in on it.
just as you are talking about ...but with a light carbon fiber rifle
And that 6 Shot group is being shot testing --- 3 different seating depths
With 162 ELD-X's, which means they may not have even "Gone to Sleep" yet at that distance
Trigger used was a JARD set trigger at 2 Oz. so yes, to "Rule out human factor" as much as possible
--- however a 1lb trigger is really as light as is needed to test groups
2 oz triggers are nice but are more for free recoil to remove any human influence in the equation
----------------------------
If a trigger is in the 6 lb range, then I DEFINITELY agree to turn it down to less than 3# for load workup

 

[Homerange]

I have not ever considered turning them down until the other night when I started wondering if anyone actually does it. I don't have any desire to start manipulating any of my triggers just for load development, but I do like the idea that Boyd Allen posted about having an interchangeable trigger to drop in just for load development. If I were to ever seriously contemplate the practice of a light trigger for that purpose, his method might be the approach I would consider.

Another technique is to fit a Trigger Shoe.
Not common these days as most good rifles have adjustable triggers however a few decade back adjustable triggers were less common.
Anyway, a trigger shoe will bluff the finger as to how much pressure is applied before the shear breaks although the measured force remains unchanged.
While this sound nuts, it works !

The advantage for you is no adjustment is required between bench and field work, only removal of the trigger shoe.

 

[nakneker]

Trigger weight is a big part of shooting itty bitty groups. I don’t shoot competition but we do shoot a lot of long range for fun and there are times when we are shooting extended ranges hunting. Trigger pull is something I personally set and forget, I don’t vary it during the load development or hunting. Most of my ridles have a trigger pull of a pound and half. A rifle that may be used by a friend or family member has more, 2.5 pounds. A pound and half isn’t very light but I’ve seen a few people pull early, people who are use to factory trigger weights or if they are wearing gloves I’ve seen them be surprised by the trigger break. It’s surprising how you can warn somebody about a lighter trigger pull and how quickly they can forget. Firearms other than my hunting rifles have more poundage on the trigger, that includes my pistols and a lot of my lever actions.

There’s no right way set in stone to set your trigger pull. In the end you need to do what works for you, maybe your idea of varying the trigger pull will work for you. It’s just not something I’ve ever done.

 

[Fast14riot]

Trigger pull is a skill to be practiced and there are different techniques. I have triggers designed to go below 1oz and others set at 4.5lbs, for different disciplines (some are required by rules of the game). I do dry fire before going hot when I switch rifles.

In general, around 2lbs you should be able to do anything, that's where I set my hunting rifles.

The best way to hone your trigger pulling skill is dry fire. I've done the "balance a nickel on the end of the barrel" while dry firing but to reset you usually will knock it off. Now I put a target up and make sure my sights are not moving off my point of aim during trigger pull. I've also shot air rifle for training which does help too (and its cheaper).

 

[cuznguido]

I dislike variables. Anything that I can standardize with all my rifles I do. For instance trigger weight. I have always set every trigger that I can adjust, to 40 ounces, regardless of purpose. That is the best way I know to neutralize that potential variable. Where possible, I treat all the rifles exactly the same.

 

[ELR LVR]

I do dry fire before going hot when I switch rifles.

Excellent point you made here!!!
This is great advice for everyone
I do this too but mostly before I go to shoot pistol to get used to the triggers that are heavier than my rifles

 

[D-4297]

NOT a good idea , for any reason . Those who shoot Target have triggers that are set to very light pull force , for obvious reasons , and those who have and shoot Hunting rifles have Trigger setting that are based on SAFETY PRECAUTIONS !
As someone who shoots F-TR Target ; I would never take a rifle with a Light-weight trigger setting into the field to hunt with . That's a accident looking for a place to happen .
As far as setting ; and re-setting a trigger for load development , why would you "NOT" do your load development with the same manner you would shoot while hunting ?