Time to make the donuts....

[D Coots]

Dave, Jackie and others- about10 years ago when many were having problems wih J-4's, the problem was jackets were too hard and had to be heat treated to solve the problem- so I'm thinking the good lots of jackets have even wall thickness and are on the soft side?

I recall that Wayne. Wondering if the weight was in relation to the hardness problem?

 

[David Conder]

George please put me on your list for a set of 30’s

 

[AlNyhus]

Some years back, I became acquainted with an engineer at one of the 'big box' bullet companies....he's a smart guy and very much into precision shooting. The company he worked for was exploring getting into supplying jackets and he sent me some prototype 1.00" .30's to make up and report back. They were really thin and very light. I had a helluva time pointing them with the failure rate from folds running about 25%. I tried all sorts of lubes and brews with zero luck. Whether it was jacket hardness, jacket thickness or a combination of both (my thoughts)....that's what happened. Maybe it would have been different with a carbide die setup instead of steel??

But.....the ones that survived the pointing process shot like the Hammers Of Hell .

Good shootin' -Al

 

[geo.ulrich]

I recall that Wayne. Wondering if the weight was in relation to the hardness problem?

Dave , Weight is just jacket thickness the hardness is due to the varying amount of zinc they were throwing in also what annealing process used. Here is a tech sheet from Wieland thats here in town that makes winchesters and sierras jacket material ASTM B130 is used for jacket material it would be 95/5 copper zinc

 

[AlNyhus]

Yesterday was -15 degrees (-35 wind chill factor) and for whatever reason, it seemed like a good time to do a modification on the Blackmon press. The through bolt hole on the handle is 3/8" and is a bit loose by design. To keep it from getting out of round, it seemed like bushing it would be reasonable. Getting the handle fixtured up in the mill vise was like a monkey making love to a milk jug. I'll spare pics of that Rube Goldberg affair.

The reaming was done in two steps with straight fluted chucking reamers...first one 7/16" and then a 1/2". For a bushing, I used three 1" long bronze bushings. The handle is exactly 3" wide so that worked good for my math skills....even I can do 3X1=3. I'd soaked the bushings in acetone to remove the impregnated oil so they could be epoxied into the handle. They were coated with JB Weld, stacked nose to tail on a shoulder bolt and pushed into place at the same time. Today, I'll hone them as needed and get it back together. The clearance will likely need to be fairly loose as this style press design uses clearance in the linkage as part of the self centering aspect. The fit of the ram in the press is very snug, though.

Good shootin' -Al

 

[Fuj]

The monkey and milk jug analogy is really a thing.....LOL This post is
timely regarding your mention of the ram. I sorted thru several RCBS
JR3's for a bullet project of a different idea. It's ram is a bit too cut away
in areas I need for other work. I have my eye on a particular shot out
barrel in the safe as donor material. It needs to be a little longer also.
I like the idea of the bronze bushings. The particular press I'll be playing
with, I went and fitted new pins several years back, then had them hard
chromed, and used white lithium grease.

 

[D Coots]

Dave , Weight is just jacket thickness the hardness is due to the varying amount of zinc they were throwing in also what annealing process used. Here is a tech sheet from Wieland thats here in town that makes winchesters and sierras jacket material ASTM B130 is used for jacket material it would be 95/5 copper zinc

George, I recall you bought an oven when there was a jacket hardness problem going on. I think Lowell said he was going to have all his jackets drawn back after having problems. Then all that went away and you were stuck with the oven. I suppose the next batch of jackets had a different composition??

Later

Dave

 

[JoeDuke]

Al, as you know, on my press the pin connecting the handle to the ram broke. I replaced it with a grade 8 bolt and lock nut. I have wondered if both the holes through the handle need to be bushed to keep the handle from wearing or perhaps fracturing. These little presses generate a huge amount of pressure.

 

[AlNyhus]

Al, as you know, on my press the pin connecting the handle to the ram broke. I replaced it with a grade 8 bolt and lock nut. I have wondered if both the holes through the handle need to be bushed to keep the handle from wearing or perhaps fracturing. These little presses generate a huge amount of pressureView attachment 1633402.View attachment 1633404

Joe, I haven't done anything with the ram pin. There's a certain amount of float needed to let the die center on to the jacket during core seating and point up. If bushing the handle arm has taught me anything, it's to resist trying to make these presses into something they're not. Like a good Partner loading press, they're loose enough to allow the dies to do the work. Pretty ingenious, actually.

By the time I got done honing the bushings today for a smooth, no bind operation...the clearance was just where it was prior to bushing. Of course, bushing the hole lets the load spread out over more area and if the bushings ever do 'egg' out, it's a simple matter to replace them.

By the way, if you make or buy some new ejectors, check to make sure the back of the ejector (behind the notch) doesn't bottom out in the ram at the very end of the ram stroke.

Good shootin' and thanks for the pics! -Al

 

[geo.ulrich]

George, I recall you bought an oven when there was a jacket hardness problem going on. I think Lowell said he was going to have all his jackets drawn back after having problems. Then all that went away and you were stuck with the oven. I suppose the next batch of jackets had a different composition??

Later

Dave

Dave, Not really I still use it for heat treating, they did get better when capstone took over...

 

[AlNyhus]

After seating cores with both dies and pointing with both dies, I'd say it was a worthwhile project. There's definitely better feed back from the handle. -Al

 

[Fuj]

Now some feed back from the targets after all that careful work......

 

[Fuj]

Yeah, we'll get that along the lakes coming Monday. We are used
to it but, it is getting old this year. Supposed to get freezing rain
first, and that's never good.

 

[tom]

We're headed into the deep freeze for a while.

National Weather Service

forecast.weather.gov

Some of us just stupid enough to go anyways



Emphasis on stupid!

Tom

 

[Gabe22BR]

some done planning to do same thing…

 

[Mulligan]

Some of us just stupid enough to go anyways

View attachment 1635118View attachment 1635119

Emphasis on stupid!

Tom

I seen the pic Wheeler posted of the testing target of your heavy 30’s. Maybe, Crazy like a fox? But not stupid! Nice work!
Clay

 

[jrb06]

Some of us just stupid enough to go anyways

View attachment 1635118View attachment 1635119

Emphasis on stupid!

Tom

Good thing you brought your fan!

 

[SongdogHunter]

Dave. It takes a lot more effort at the handle to make the 30’s. I use the regular RCBS Presses to make my 68 grn 6MM. I use the big modified Lee 50 cal presses for the 30’s. And the point up even has the handle extended.View attachment 1613011

Ulrich press conversions ?

 

[jackieschmidt]

Ulrich press conversions ?

Yes, with a few of my own minor touches.

 

[yukonal]

What a thread Al! Thanks for starting it...I certainly learned a ton about a subject I was not familiar with. Glad your hand didn't get stuck in the "cookie jar" when applying lube...lol