6.5 PRC, loading to touch

[Doublesunder]

Are there any concerns loading out to touch?

Single shot action and .188 freebore.

CBTO 2.265
COAL 3.075
55 grains N565
153.5 grain Berger Hybrids
210M Federal

 

[Straightshooter1]

Are there any concerns loading out to touch?

Single shot action and .188 freebore.

CBTO 2.265
COAL 3.075
55 grains N565
153.5 grain Berger Hybrids
210M Federal

I've been shooting 153.5's with 57grs of N565 in Lapua brass having a case volume of 68.6 grs H2O with a COAL of 3.098 using 210M Primers. Using my data for N565 with your cartridge COAL of 3.075 and touching the lands, it looks to me like it's going to be just slightly over the SAAMI pressure limit, as seating to touch (or even very close to touch) the lands does raise the pressure substantially.

Fact is, you can't really depend on what happens in someone else gun will really equate to what'll happen in your gun. So, the best thing you should do to find out what happens with your gun is to start lower and run a pressure test working up to that 55 grs to see where your gun shows pressure signs. You might find you can go higher than 55 grains touching the lands???

 

[drop_point]

"Touch" is a moving target. Work to node, stay in the node, adjust when you fall out of it.

 

[Straightshooter1]

"Touch" is a moving target. Work to node, stay in the node, adjust when you fall out of it.

Yes, to get the bullet to touch as the throat erodes. But the amount of pressure to get the bullet moving is pretty consistent, is it not?

 

[drop_point]

Yes, to get the bullet to touch as the throat erodes. But the amount of pressure to get the bullet moving is pretty consistent, is it not?

I'd bet most can't find the exact touch point, load consistently at that point, and follow it as it erodes. I find the WORST accuracy comes when you try to "just touch".

 

[L.Sherm]

Do the Wheeler Method and you will

 

[JEFFPPC]

Touch is is only a reference point. There is no right or wrong measurement. Sounds like you already have a load. Find touch with a dummy round, now you have an idea where you are and have a point to work from. Ignore post 5, it's irrelevant, just static.

 

[Straightshooter1]

I'd bet most can't find the exact touch point, load consistently at that point, and follow it as it erodes. I find the WORST accuracy comes when you try to "just touch".

Every try loading the cartridge with very light neck tension where you load the cartridge long and let the bullet seat as you chamber the round? That could be pretty consistent, huh?

Is "just touching" worse than jamming?

 

[Doublesunder]

I've been shooting 153.5's with 57grs of N565 in Lapua brass having a case volume of 68.6 grs H2O with a COAL of 3.098 using 210M Primers. Using my data for N565 with your cartridge COAL of 3.075 and touching the lands, it looks to me like it's going to be just slightly over the SAAMI pressure limit, as seating to touch (or even very close to touch) the lands does raise the pressure substantially.

Fact is, you can't really depend on what happens in someone else gun will rally equate to what'll happen in your gun. So, the best thing you should do to find out what happens with your gun is to start lower and run a pressure test working up to that 55 grs to see where your gun show pressure signs. You might find you can go higher than 55 grains touching the lands???

This is down the line with what I was thinking.
Good information, as I was worried about pushing the COAL lengths trying to find a better node to work in.
I'm using Lapua brass also!

Everything I tried with larger jumps were just mediocre.

Thanks

 

[Doublesunder]

Not chasing the lands , more looking for a better node without excessive jump.
Thanks everyone for the input!

 

[KMW 1954]

Every try loading the cartridge with very light neck tension where you load the cartridge long and let the bullet seat as you chamber the round? That could be pretty consistent, huh?

I had just started loading and Shooting a 6ARC this past summer. Never experienced 6mm previously.

I started with this method for load development, 1st using 105gr Lapua Scenar of which I acquired a bunch cheap. Then some 105gr Hornady and now 105gr Berger Hybrid.

So I started at that bolt seated dimension and moved back .010" to start. Found a nice powder and charge and then started pushing back shorter. The more I moved back the larger the groups got. Moved back to that "touch" length and found that to be the sweetest spot for this barrel and bullet.

Everyone tells me this isn't supposed to work. Especially with this bullet. Well I have now shot this load in 4 weeks of league competition and have shot my best scores ever after 3 previous years. With this rifle, cartridge, bullet combination I have moved from middle of the pack to Top 6 of 21 members.

 

[drop_point]

Every try loading the cartridge with very light neck tension where you load the cartridge long and let the bullet seat as you chamber the round? That could be pretty consistent, huh?

Is "just touching" worse than jamming?

Yes, I have done so. Ejecting a live round becomes problematic. I've found my best results at least with some jump and find where the nodes are.

 

[JEFFPPC]

I had just started loading and Shooting a 6ARC this past summer. Never experienced 6mm previously.

I started with this method for load development, 1st using 105gr Lapua Scenar of which I acquired a bunch cheap. Then some 105gr Hornady and now 105gr Berger Hybrid.

So I started at that bolt seated dimension and moved back .010" to start. Found a nice powder and charge and then started pushing back shorter. The more I moved back the larger the groups got. Moved back to that "touch" length and found that to be the sweetest spot for this barrel and bullet.

Everyone tells me this isn't supposed to work. Especially with this bullet. Well I have now shot this load in 4 weeks of league competition and have shot my best scores ever after 3 previous years. With this rifle, cartridge, bullet combination I have moved from middle of the pack to Top 6 of 21 members.

Good post . You have a brain and use it. Now I hope you learned about listening to...everybody, most of who don't know what they don't know. Good luck, your doing fine.

 

[Dave M.]

I'd bet most can't find the exact touch point, load consistently at that point, and follow it as it erodes. I find the WORST accuracy comes when you try to "just touch".

Very little point trying to load right at touch. If you must have all of your rounds as close as possible to touch, likely loading long with less neck tension would be the answer

 

[One Eye Pete]

Just my two cents
On most of my target rifles I normally find the best accuracy with my bullets jammed usually between .005 to .020 into the lands. When I first work up my powder load I start with the bullet approx .005 into the lands so that I don’t get overpressure as you could by working up a load with the bullet jumping and then moving into the lands.
As far as sticking a bullet in the lands when ejecting a round, with a new unfired barrel (very sharp lands) this will happen very easily. However once the barrel is fully broken in (100 rounds) I have almost never had a bullet seated less than .approx .020 jammed stick in the lands.
As far as “chasing the lands” I find that when seating jammed I can usually get the best accuracy but the trade off is the gun will tend to go out of tune somewhat quicker as the lands wear then when the bullets are jumping. Although I am not a hunter if I did hunt I could certainly get acceptable accuracy jumping my bullets and would not need to jam my bullets.
The one place I do not seat any of my bullets is at or close to the touch point (+/- .003). Generally if I am near touch and the lands wear the gun will go out of tune quickly. I either want to be jammed or jumping but not on the borderline. Also I stay away from “hard jam”. That far in is where you flirt with the danger of sticking a bullet and spilling powder into the action if you have to eject the round without firing.
As far as finding the touch point the Wheeler method works best for me.

 

[drop_point]

Very little point trying to load right at touch. If you must have all of your rounds as close as possible to touch, likely loading long with less neck tension would be the answer

I agree 100%.

 

[Dave M.]

Just my two cents
On most of my target rifles I normally find the best accuracy with my bullets jammed usually between .005 to .020 into the lands. When I first work up my powder load I start with the bullet approx .005 into the lands so that I don’t get overpressure as you could by working up a load with the bullet jumping and then moving into the lands.
As far as sticking a bullet in the lands when ejecting a round, with a new unfired barrel (very sharp lands) this will happen very easily. However once the barrel is fully broken in (100 rounds) I have almost never had a bullet seated less than .approx .020 jammed stick in the lands.
As far as “chasing the lands” I find that when seating jammed I can usually get the best accuracy but the trade off is the gun will tend to go out of tune somewhat quicker as the lands wear then when the bullets are jumping. Although I am not a hunter if I did hunt I could certainly get acceptable accuracy jumping my bullets and would not need to jam my bullets.
The one place I do not seat any of my bullets is at or close to the touch point (+/- .003). Generally if I am near touch and the lands wear the gun will go out of tune quickly. I either want to be jammed or jumping but not on the borderline. Also I stay away from “hard jam”. That far in is where you flirt with the danger of sticking a bullet and spilling powder into the action if you have to eject the round without firing.
As far as finding the touch point the Wheeler method works best for me.

This is very close to my findings. I shoot most rifles 9-15 thou off hard jam, which is similar to your 5-20 thou into the lands.
Dave

 

[Doublesunder]

Update to the thread.
3 shot groups seemed to really tighten up.
Best node was in the .003 to .009
Jump from hard touch.

 

[4xforfun]

1) Loading light neck tension and "soft seating " the bullet sounds good, but really doesn't work. I thought the same thing when i really got serious about accuracy and was told don't bother. I tried it anyway. No Joy!! It sounds like a great idea, but NEVER worked for me in all the times I thought i was smarter than the people here.

2) "Just touch" ......when you consider the combined runout in bullet tolerances along with runout with your die, press, etc..... " STACKING".....you may be + or- .002 in or out. Now, .002 doesn't seem like much when you are all in or out....say .030. But, at just touch, .002 means that you may be in or out. On top of that, what was said before......your just touch measurement is always moving.

Just my .02