competition shell holders

[greyspider56]

I’m having fits trying to get a .002 shoulder bump. I have a zero press using a redding s bushing die. Prep the brass to the point of resizing, put it a regular redding shellholder. raise the ram til it touches and add a bit more for cam over. Now the anguish begins. Check with a short action comparator, record measurement. put it in the press, size it and its more. Fine i back it off and try again and start screwing the die in very slightly. I get to 1-1.5 thousand go just a tad more and now it’s 5 thou. And I mean i almost didn’t feel it move. Can someone tell me why? Would competition shellholders help?

Thanks

Mike

 

[chromatica]

Most dies are threaded 14 TPI. That means each full turn of the die changes the depth by .071. That's seventy-one thousandths. You only need to turn the die 5 degrees to change the depth by .001.

 

[Chiquita]

I am a firm believer of the competition shell holder.

I set my die once then do final shoulder bumps with comp. shell holder.

 

[Jerry Wick]

If it's a bolt gun, 1-1.5 thou sounds perfect!

 

[Kracken McGraw]

I am a firm believer of the competition shell holder.

I set my die once then o final shoulder bumps with comp. shell holder.

Me too!

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

Are you trying to fix a bolt closing issue? Did you try and adjust the die gutted(no bushing or expander/rod) than the die is a body only.

 

[AlNyhus]

Another good way is to use the Skip Otto die shims.

 

[TIMO]

When I set-up a sizing die, for each adjustment I use a different piece of brass to take measurements from for that adjustment to ensure I do not get weird measurements from sizing and adjusting using the same piece of brass. Once I have my die adjusted, I comeback and resize all the pieces of brass that I used during set-up of the sizing die to ensure they are all as close as possible.

Just my .02
Tim

 

[jpjulian]

Once the case is run up into the die don't forget to dwell for a couple seconds before lowering the ram.

 

[Mike TackleBerry]

.0015 of bump is good for a bolt gun. I bump my shoulders back .001 when I resize my brass. For gas guns, I'll bump the shoulder .003-.004. A simple test is to bump the shoulder back .001, remove the firing pin and ejector assembly, Insert the brass, close the bolt on the resized brass, and see if it closes with no effort.

 

[R.Morehouse]

I’m having fits trying to get a .002 shoulder bump. I have a zero press using a redding s bushing die. Prep the brass to the point of resizing, put it a regular redding shellholder. raise the ram til it touches and add a bit more for cam over. Now the anguish begins. Check with a short action comparator, record measurement. put it in the press, size it and its more. Fine i back it off and try again and start screwing the die in very slightly. I get to 1-1.5 thousand go just a tad more and now it’s 5 thou. And I mean i almost didn’t feel it move. Can someone tell me why? Would competition shellholders help?

Thanks

Mike

Mike
I don't believe the Zero Press is designed for cam-over.

Regards
Rick

 

[DLT]

on a regular press yes it would help. I love my set

 

[greyspider56]

Are you trying to fix a bolt closing issue? Did you try and adjust the die gutted(no bushing or expander/rod) than the die is a body only.

I pulled the deprimer and expander ball. it’s just the die body. I’m trying to getting the bolt to close by just the weight of the bolt handle. i don’t want to mess up the brass(Lapua) by pushing the shoulders back 3-4 thou

Thanks

 

[drop_point]

Are all the cases fully formed? Did you measure each case before attempting to size or set your caliper to zero? There could be some case to case variation after firing causing you to chase your tail.

The Zero shell holder system is GREAT. With the Zero press/shell holders, push the die down to touch plus about an 1/8" of a turn or less. I measure a handful of cases and pick the longest one...size with the #8 (or whatever it is...the shell holder insert that sizes the least) and remeasure. Then move down to the appropriate shell holder base. Then I test it in the rifle, if the bolt closes as I want it to, I'm good to go. The Zero shell holders go by 0.002" each, which 0.002" is what I shoot for.

 

[Kracken McGraw]

And I mean i almost didn’t feel it move. Can someone tell me why?

Because 3.5 thousandth is not much of a move. Get the competition shell holders and watch Alex Wheeler’s video on bolt drop on sizing brass.

 

[K22]

I assume we are talking about a bolt rifle. I have seen this difficulty with many new reloaders.

Why do you believe you need a .002" shoulder bump?

Some basics: Start with virgin cases of the same brand and lot, dedicated to a specific rifle. Rotate their use so all cases receive the same degree of sizing and firing.

A few firings will be necessary to fire form the cases to your rifle chamber. During this period, do not bump the shoulder back. Set you die for a "0" bump. To do this, measure 5 fired cases, primer removed. Set the die to size the longest case head space measured to "0" or .001" bump. Note most calipers are only accurate to .001". What you want to avoid is extruding the shorter cases, i.e., lengthening them because they have not fully fired formed yet.

After the cases completely fire form to the chamber you may have to increase the bump slightly but most likely you won't. The F/L die also sizes the radial dimension of the case and this is often enough to produce smooth chambering as long as you are NOT extruding the cases during sizing. I often go 12 reloads (223, 243, 308) or more without having to increase the bump. However, calibers with case that tend to stretch more, such as the 22 250 may require more frequent bumping.

Bumping the Shoulder. At some point you may need to increase the bump. One of the most economical and easiest methods I found to make changes in bump is with Skip Shims that fit over the lock ring of the die. You can use these for any caliber. I found them to be much easier (straight forward) to use than Competition Shell Holders. I can share my method of using them if you decide to go with Shims. I have used this method successfully reloading literally thousands of bottle neck rifle cases to produce optimum sizing.

However, many reloaders successfully use competition shell holders also to make bump changes. Just make sure you measure them to verify the markings on the shell holder are correct. In one case, I found two that were not. But that may be just an isolated incident. Still, check them.

PS: I do not anneal but annealing done properly, it can produce more uniform case metallurgy and thus case sizing. However, for my purposes, I have not found it necessary and didn't want to complicate the reloading process and increase my costs with more equipment.

 

[dellet]

The competition shell holders will only make things worse. For you.

They are designed to give less bump, not more. The unmarked “normal” shell holder should set the base to shoulder datum at minimum length, maximum headspace. The deck of the shell holder where the case rests on the competition shell holder is set .002” lower on each shell holder. So the normal shell holder the case sits .125” deep and a #10 .135” deep. Maximum base to datum, minimum headspace.

When you had the die adjusted to 001-.0015”, then adjusted your die down, and got .005” bump, how do you set the lock ring?

If the die is loose in the press, then the ram raised to the top to size the case, then lowered and the lock ring tightened with no pressure on the die, the die will be in a diffferent place due to Thread clearances. It can even be tough to take a die out and screw it back in and get the same setting if the die is tightened down significantly different that when removed.

Your proble could be that simple.

 

[Kracken McGraw]

The competition shell holders will only make things worse. For you.

They are designed to give less bump, not more. The unmarked “normal” shell holder should set the base to shoulder datum at minimum length, maximum headspace. The deck of the shell holder where the case rests on the competition shell holder is set .002” lower on each shell holder. So the normal shell holder the case sits .125” deep and a #10 .135” deep. Maximum base to datum, minimum headspace.

When you had the die adjusted to 001-.0015”, then adjusted your die down, and got .005” bump, how do you set the lock ring?

If the die is loose in the press, then the ram raised to the top to size the case, then lowered and the lock ring tightened with no pressure on the die, the die will be in a diffferent place due to Thread clearances. It can even be tough to take a die out and screw it back in and get the same setting if the die is tightened down significantly different that when removed.

Your proble could be that simple.

You’re looking at it wrong though on the competition shell holders. He would start with the #10 and then go down numerical in size to get the bump he wants. Then as last resort the regular shell holder would give maximum bump.

 

[dellet]

You’re looking at it wrong though on the competition shell holders. He would start with the #10 and then go down numerical in size to get the bump he wants. Then as last resort the regular shell holder would give maximum bump.

I think you’re right. Im probably confused by the first post. It sounded like he was using a normal shell holder, and screwing the die down to get more bump, and it did not help. To me it sounded like the base to shoulder measurement was “more” after sizing. Like the shoulder was not contacting the die.

 

[LCazador]

Like McGraw above use the competition shell holder to achieve the bump you want. Keep in mind the standard shell holder you're using now should be a standard Redding brand shell holder. It will match the Redding competition shell holder set. Set your die to abut the shell holder on the ram firmly then start with the tallest shell holder (+.010") in the competition shell holder set and go down from there till you achieve your desired bump. There are various things that seem to change the amount of bump. Operate the ram at a consistent speed and use sizing die wax sparingly. More speed on the ram and more lube will change the bump. On some of the big presses you will not feel any difference.