Hybrid CNC/Manual Lathe

[urbanrifleman]

Dave Tooley uses a CNC, A Haas TL1 I believe, If he had it to do over again, I bet he wouldn't bat an eye, He has done thousands of barrels.

Hey if you want to spend 40k to 50K on a lathe to do a barrel a month, knock yourself out.

I think Dave is doing thousands of barrels a year. For him, it would make perfect sense. I don't know the specifics of his business but I think he has a very high volume.

 

[Jud96]

Hey if you want to spend 40k to 50K on a lathe to do a barrel a month, knock yourself out.

I think Dave is doing thousands of barrels a year. For him, it would make perfect sense. I don't know the specifics of his business but I think he has a very high volume.

I was looking at used TL-1’s and Prototraks, they’re around $15-25k used in good shape.

Doing a barrel in 1/3 the time sounded cool to me. But I agree, it’s not necessarily.

 

[urbanrifleman]

I was looking at used TL-1’s and Prototraks, they’re around $15-25k used in good shape.

Doing a barrel in 1/3 the time sounded cool to me. But I agree, it’s not necessarily.

I actually was looking at one of those prototrax myself at one point. I'm not saying it's not a super cool lathe.

But I suppose it's like buying a ZR1 Corvette to drive your kid back and forth to school once a day. Hey if you got the cash knock yourself out, but your old pickup truck that's been paid for for 20 years will do the same job. With no payment

 

[Sniperhandle]

Hey if you want to spend 40k to 50K on a lathe to do a barrel a month, knock yourself out.

I think Dave is doing thousands of barrels a year. For him, it would make perfect sense. I don't know the specifics of his business but I think he has a very high volume.

If all you do is a barrel a month, I can see why you bought 3 manual lathes.

 

[urbanrifleman]

If all you do is a barrel a month, I can see why you bought 3 manual lathes.

You seem to be very interested in my business. You certainly seem to comment on what I do with my business a lot.

How many barrels do you do a month?

 

[Sniperhandle]

You seem to be very interested in my business. You certainly seem to comment on what I do with my business a lot.

How many barrels do you do a month?

I only do 3 or 4 a year, I have chambered somewhere between 2 to 300 barrels, Only because I worked for a rifle builder for a while. He bought a Haas when I left. I would never dream of buying a CNC it wouldn't pay me because I'm a hobbyist. I have been on this forum a long time, Mostly in the Gunsmithing section so of course I have seen what you have bought.

I don't have any interest in your business, But you have asked for peoples opinions several times over the last few years, Of course you are going to get a 100 different answers on an internet forum.

 

[urbanrifleman]

I only do 3 or 4 a year, I have chambered somewhere between 2 to 300 barrels, Only because I worked for a rifle builder for a while. He bought a Haas when I left. I would never dream of buying a CNC it wouldn't pay me because I'm a hobbyist. I have been on this forum a long time, Mostly in the Gunsmithing section so of course I have seen what you have bought.

I don't have any interest in your business, But you have asked for peoples opinions several times over the last few years, Of course you are going to get a 100 different answers on an internet forum.

This year I will have done over 200 barrels just this year. I think I'm at about 450 totals so far. And my company is not in debt like some of the other people that I know that must be deep in debt from all the equipment they bought that they cannot pay for.

I do know some guys personally that were drawn into the allure of the high-tech machines. I would say at this point many of them are struggling to find enough business to pay for all that equipment. Unless you are an OEM with OEM type contracts it's going to be very difficult to pay for basic CNC machines. I do know of other guys that already had machine shops and then started chambering using one of the machines they already had. And then of course they market it based on the fact that they use cnc machines which must be better right? Which is also funny because I remember a time when anything made on a CNC machine was a piece of junk. Just depends on who's doing the marketing as to what's better.

 

[Sniperhandle]

This year I will have done over 200 barrels just this year. I think I'm at about 450 totals so far. And my company is not in debt like some of the other people that I know that must be deep in debt from all the equipment they bought that they cannot pay for.

I do know some guys personally that were drawn into the allure of the high-tech machines. I would say at this point many of them are struggling to find enough business to pay for all that equipment. Unless you are an OEM with OEM type contracts it's going to be very difficult to pay for even a basic CNC machine. I do know of other guys that already had machine shops and then started chambering using one of the machines they already had. And then of course they market it based on the fact that they use c&c machines which must be better right? Which is also funny because I remember a time when anything made on a CNC machine was a piece of junk. Just depends on who's doing the marketing as to what's better.

I am not making a career out of it, I do this for fun. Even when I worked for my friend it was for fun, I did it for a few years and then I moved out of that state, We are still very good friends, That was a long time ago.

I hope you do well. Stop taking everything so personally, It's like you are always on defense, Mellow out a bit.

 

[urbanrifleman]

I am not making a career out of it, I do this for fun. Even when I worked for my friend it was for fun, I did it for a few years and then I moved out of that state, We are still very good friends, That was a long time ago.

I hope you do well. Stop taking everything so personally, It's like you are always on defense, Mellow out a bit.

Hmmm. I think I'm just going to leave that sit right there and let you have the last word...

 

[X Count]

Thats a fact. Even with the best parts. A good rifle build is a lot more than a chamber and bedding job. A little off topic, but so many guys go to chambering classes and it seems like its the only part of building a rifle. Chambering is important. But its actually simple stuff compared to a really good bedding job. There should be a lot more talk and guys going to classes for the inlet and bedding in my opinion. I think most guys know its not too hard to find someone to barrel an action but its not as easy to find someone to do a quality job inletting and bedding. Thats where the need in the market is. Of course prices will have to go up to get guys to want go into that work. And the most important part in my opinion is the action.

Agreed with this overall.

On a slight tangent. I feel that there is time to be saved and money to be made (possibly better ROI) by having a small CNC mill for doing inletting. Possibly a machine dedicated to that process that only needs to have a working area of say 10"×4"

 

[butchlambert]

If you are looking for a 3 axis CNC mill, my Uncle Bill has this one with tooling for very little money. It has probably less than 100hrs.


It can be used manually also.

 

[59FLH]

Doing a barrel in 1/3 the time sounded cool

Sounds profitable, your 66.666% ahead on you barrel work alone. Now you’re available to walk away and do another operation putting you 100% ahead for that amount of time. And when there is no barrel work you can kill it by cranking out large or small run production parts from bar stock that do not require the setup time most people think barrels do,

If your a business man you will find a way to profit from your investments.

 

[Tucker65]

I say if you want to buy a cnc lathe and will have the knowledge to use it, go for it!

Quite a few years ago I purchased a brand new Haas mini mill. At the time, all tooled up for what I thought I was going to need, it was around $45K I really didn't have any steady jobs lined up for it, and I also worked a regular full time job elsewhere. This was just going to he a hobby business for me to maker some extra money.

Some of my friends thought I was nuts but when I asked them how much their fancy new diesel pickup cost they didn't have much to say anymore.

I paid for that mill by making mostly a bunch of trinket stuff that I dreamed up. I'm sure if a guy had an imagination he could also find things to make with the lathe he could sell also.

If I had more room in my shop I would probably also have a small cnc lathe. But for now I'll just crank things out manually.

 

[LVLAaron]

As a member of the thread derail crew; I'd much rather have a cnc mini mill

 

[urbanrifleman]

As a member of the thread derail crew; I'd much rather have a cnc mini mill

I agree. When I was working in the 1990s as an engineer for a automotive supplier I worked with a company that had a CNC mill that was tied to CAD /CAM. The engineer would design a part in Autodesk inventor, export it, and have a billet prototype within a few hours. That is a handy dandy little tool right there.

 

[Jud96]

The thing is, I plan to have a CNC mill and CNC lathe for my side business. I’m looking into used but not abused Haas stuff. Thinking a VF1 or 2 with a rotary 4th axis or a Mini Mill that’s loaded with a rotary. For lathes I’m looking at ST10/20s. My plan would be to keep those running my parts and setup for production at all times. My goal is for them to pay for themselves and eventually start making me money to dump back into the business and/or my hobby. A new truck is $70k+, about the price of a brand new Haas or a couple used ones. Not that big of a deal when you think of it like that.

Then I’d have a lathe just for chambering, tinkering, and making fixtures. With a CNC setup for chambering, I could get everything touched off and setup, hit “cycle start” and just bounce between all 3 machines checking on things and keeping stuff going. All this being done after my real job and on weekends. With a manual lathe, I would either be stopping to tend to the CNCs or just not run production and focus on chambering for a few hours. For right now, I don’t think I do enough chambering to justify a CNC, but I like to think long term. A manual will work for me now, but I may revisit the topic if I start doing more barrels one day.

 

[Brass Case]

It seems as though you're trying to apply logic and reason. As I tell everyone, who is considering jumping into the shooting sports arena (read: a deep hole with no bottom), check that at the door!.......

 

[WSnyder]

Quite a few years ago I purchased a brand new Haas mini mill.

If I remember correctly this is how Seekins started. I believe he was working as a machinist somewhere and put a little HAAS toolroom mill in his garage and started making his rings on the side.

 

[DaveTooley]

Agreed with this overall.

On a slight tangent. I feel that there is time to be saved and money to be made (possibly better ROI) by having a small CNC mill for doing inletting. Possibly a machine dedicated to that process that only needs to have a working area of say 10"×4"

That's a rabbit hole you don't want to go down.

 

[DaveTooley]

The thing is, I plan to have a CNC mill and CNC lathe for my side business. I’m looking into used but not abused Haas stuff. Thinking a VF1 or 2 with a rotary 4th axis or a Mini Mill that’s loaded with a rotary. For lathes I’m looking at ST10/20s. My plan would be to keep those running my parts and setup for production at all times. My goal is for them to pay for themselves and eventually start making me money to dump back into the business and/or my hobby. A new truck is $70k+, about the price of a brand new Haas or a couple used ones. Not that big of a deal when you think of it like that.

Then I’d have a lathe just for chambering, tinkering, and making fixtures. With a CNC setup for chambering, I could get everything touched off and setup, hit “cycle start” and just bounce between all 3 machines checking on things and keeping stuff going. All this being done after my real job and on weekends. With a manual lathe, I would either be stopping to tend to the CNCs or just not run production and focus on chambering for a few hours. For right now, I don’t think I do enough chambering to justify a CNC, but I like to think long term. A manual will work for me now, but I may revisit the topic if I start doing more barrels one day.

You could always set up an adjustable16C collet system on a full on CNC lathe with a way to hold the muzzle. The issue is changing back and forth between fixtures. Burns a lot of time. Many ways to shorten the time required on a manual machine. The first thing is don't over think everything. I know one action Mfg./ rifle builder who did everything up to running the finish reamer in on a Mazak. Then they would go to a manual machine and use a steady rest to put the finished chamber in.

I never chambered a thousand barrels in a year. Probably came close a couple of years. Those days are gone. Just piddling around now making walking around money.