High Performance Rifle Barrel Cleaning - Video

[Bryan Litz Ballistics]

Have you found this for the hard carbon in the throat of 223's where cleaning is done after, on average, 80 rounds?

Good point. With my statement, I was thinking of the firecracking that's done by 'high performance', but with some powders it's possible to create such a carbon ring that may require abrasives to get out.

 

[47WillysGuy]

Yes... solvents work to clean fouling out of barrels, but the abrasives are for when the barrel is 'roughened' by whatever you're shooting. How much roughness you generate depends on variables like powder type but I think its mostly driven by performance. That's why I named the video "High Performance Rifle Barrel Cleaning"; the abrasives aren't necessary for lower performance rounds.

Does this process of 60 strokes with JB abrasives. guarantee complete removal of hard carbon and copper?

If I do the 60 stokes with JB, clean the barrel of the abrasive residue, then apply Boretech Copper Removal solvent, I should NOT any blue patches back. Correct?

 

[Pete Wass]

Hi Bryan, Have you tried anything more aggressive than JB ?

Pete Wass

 

[wildcat3d]

Bryan has a degree in Aerospace Engineering and worked for the US Air Force on Air-to-air missile design, modeling and simulation. He has since left the government and became the Chief Ballistician for Berger Bullets. Bryan founded Applied Ballistics and has produced numerous articles, books, and videos related to the science of long range shooting. He was also part of 3 World Champion US Shooting teams. He has a pretty good grasp on what he is doing.

Unfortunately, guys with Bryan's knowledge don't often post on forums because of the comments they get from people with far less experience.... just saying...

And I know a hundred BR shooters that would not dream of cleaning their ( high pressure/High Performance) rifles without a bore guide...

 

[jackieschmidt]

And I know a hundred BR shooters that would not dream of cleaning their ( high pressure/High Performance) rifles without a bore guide...

And, no Short Range Benchrest Shooter would dream of shooting 200 rounds through a barrel before cleaning. Heck, in my 6PPC, It gets cleaned after every group.

Premium barrels are extremely precision pieces. Barrel manufacturers strive to hold ridiculously small tolerances coupled with the ideal ID finish to insure match winning accuracy.

Putting 200 rounds down a barrel before cleaning it would be akin to buying a new ZR-1 Corvette, running it hard, and not changing the oil and filters untill the oil pressure dropped. Regardless of your best efforts, the damage is already done.

The shooting Disciplines that have Formats that make proper cleaning at sensible intervals impossible should recognize barrel cleaning as a necessary function of precision shooting and modify their Formats to allow proper barrel maintenance before permanent damage occurs.

 

[chop house]

Heck, in my 6PPC, It gets cleaned after every group.

Patches only, or brush also? Thanks

 

[SeabeeKen]

I have never found that abrasives, when used correctly, reduce the life of my competition barrels. There is no non-abrasive cleaning solution that will remove hard carbon. Many solvents will do a great job on powder fouling and copper but an abrasive is required to remove the hard carbon that will continue to build up in the throat and first several inches of the barrel..

Smaller calibers don't require as much as larger calibers. Your mileage will vary.

I spent over a year testing most all bore cleaners out there and completely agree with your statement with 1 exception. TM Solution did remove the hard packed bore carbon when allowed to soak 30-60 minutes. It turned it to a goo and 95% of it came out after the first application although I wasn't waiting until accuracy suffered to clean. YMMV.

 

[jelenko]

And, no Short Range Benchrest Shooter would dream of shooting 200 rounds through a barrel before cleaning. Heck, in my 6PPC, It gets cleaned after every group.

Premium barrels are extremely precision pieces. Barrel manufacturers strive to hold ridiculously small tolerances coupled with the ideal ID finish to insure match winning accuracy.

Putting 200 rounds down a barrel before cleaning it would be akin to buying a new ZR-1 Corvette, running it hard, and not changing the oil and filters untill the oil pressure dropped. Regardless of your best efforts, the damage is already done.

The shooting Disciplines that have Formats that make proper cleaning at sensible intervals impossible should recognize barrel cleaning as a necessary function of precision shooting and modify their Formats to allow proper barrel maintenance before permanent damage occurs.

Jackie - For 'cross the course' we shoot on 2 MOA/1 MOA 10 ring/X ring. It's just not an issue if we can't clean for 1-2 hundred rounds.

 

[Ruger15151]

I spent over a year testing most all bore cleaners out there and completely agree with your statement with 1 exception. TM Solution did remove the hard packed bore carbon when allowed to soak 30-60 minutes. It turned it to a goo and 95% of it came out after the first application although I wasn't waiting until accuracy suffered to clean. YMMV.

What caliber and how many rounds were on the barrel between cleanings?

 

[SeabeeKen]

Calibers from 22 to 36 and 60-80 rounds

 

[Bob3700]

Boots Obermeyer always cleaned his barrels with a patch wound around a bronze brush and a generous amount of diatomecious earth (RemClean). He used nothing else. He always shot pretty darned well.

Have u purchased any Rem Clean lately? It is not the same as the original. I don’t believe it is an abrasive anymore.

 

[Bryan Litz Ballistics]

Does this process of 60 strokes with JB abrasives. guarantee complete removal of hard carbon and copper?

If I do the 60 stokes with JB, clean the barrel of the abrasive residue, then apply Boretech Copper Removal solvent, I should NOT any blue patches back. Correct?

I'm not making guarantees.

It's possible that the abrasive doesn't remove some fouling out of big/deep firecracking and corners that solvent would get.

However, the result is to leave the surface smoother.

My goal isn't to remove 100% of fouling. My goal is to maintain the barrel in a sustainable way that promotes the most stable performance and barrel life. If that leaves a little fouling in the fire cracking I'm OK with that.

Take care,
-Bryan

 

[Bryan Litz Ballistics]

Hi Bryan, Have you tried anything more aggressive than JB ?

Pete Wass

Witches brew on a bronze brush...

It's really aggressive and doesn't take many passes to remove fouling, but I don't think it leaves the barrel as smooth. Witches brew on a patch might work, haven't tried that enough.

Because I'm interested in long term effects, I tend to stick with a practice without variation, for a long time. The benefit is I get to know the method very well, downside is if there's something better I'm not likely to find it. It's the old balance between explore and exploit.

 

[Bryan Litz Ballistics]

And I know a hundred BR shooters that would not dream of cleaning their ( high pressure/High Performance) rifles without a bore guide...

but does that mean a bore guide is necessary?

Of the people who say: "I'd never clean with abrasives because they KILL the barrel"

and

"I NEVER clean a barrel without a bore guide"

I wonder how many of them have actually tried it and observed negative results, and how many are just following common advice.

 

[wildcat3d]

but does that mean a bore guide is necessary?

Of the people who say: "I'd never clean with abrasives because they KILL the barrel"

and

"I NEVER clean a barrel without a bore guide"

I wonder how many of them have actually tried it and observed negative results, and how many are just following common advice.

Ask my Gunsmith Speedy Gonzales...or better still just check out his videos. He's a very busy Man!

 

[HTSmith]

but does that mean a bore guide is necessary?

Of the people who say: "I'd never clean with abrasives because they KILL the barrel"

and

"I NEVER clean a barrel without a bore guide"

I wonder how many of them have actually tried it and observed negative results, and how many are just following common advice.

You make some very good points. I can’t count the times I read—“no way you can be competive without turning necks.” Thanks for taking the time to post

 

[jackieschmidt]

Patches only, or brush also? Thanks

Both.
Things like over coppering, fouling, and that dreaded carbon ring are just about non existent in Short Range Benchrest because we never let it take hold.

Our Rifles have to perform at that magic “sub .200 agging capability” in order to be competitive. We tend to treat our barrels like the fine pieces of equipment that they are. First and foremost is proper barrel cleaning at frequent intervals.

 

[jackieschmidt]

but does that mean a bore guide is necessary?


I wonder how many of them have actually tried it and observed negative results, and how many are just following common advice.

Bryan, I have personal knowledge of what a fast moving cleaning rod being aloud to lay on the bottom of the muzzle end of a barrel can do. I caution shooters to stop that brush or jag the instant it leaves the muzzle.

Since the rod can not be stopped at the throat, a viable means of keeping it off of the lands and grooves is simply common sense.

As Speedy says in his videos, not just any guide will do. It must fit the rod.

 

[WSnyder]

Does this process of 60 strokes with JB abrasives. guarantee complete removal of hard carbon and copper?

Same your arm and some time with Thorroclean from Bullet Central. Way faster and probably more effective than JB ever was. Thorroclean is basically a much easier to use and apply Iosso.

 

[Bill Norris]

Bryan, I have personal knowledge of what a fast moving cleaning rod being aloud to lay on the bottom of the muzzle end of a barrel can do. I caution shooters to stop that brush or jag the instant it flats the muzzle.

Since the rod can not be stopped at the throat, a viable means of keeping it off of the lands and grooves is simply common sense.

As Speedy says in his videos, not just any guide will do. It must fit the rod.

Right, wrong, or indifferent it pays to be on the safe side when dealing with a good quality barrel. Especially one you depend on to bring home the metal.