Flare at End of the Brass Neck

[AICS308]

Only time I’ve seen this is when the neck is oversized and using flat base bullets.

 

[joelpend]

Is that even possible? I've never heard of that. If anything I've heard the opposite that you cannot hurt the brass by over-annealing.

Absolutely you can destroy cartridge brass if you get it too hot. It can be so soft you will have zero neck tension. Annealing a piece twice in an AMP machine is not over annealing since it did not overheat the brass.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

The ss pin work harden the end of the neck. When you size the neck that part of the neck springs back more, creating the flare. Yours is extreme, you may be tumbling longer or for some reason its more aggressive, but the only reason for the ss pins is nasty pick up range brass. Other than that its all bad.

 

[PeaShooter]

I was curious at what point it n the loading process is the brass tumbled in the pins?

decap, Body die/bump/neck, chamfer, Anneal, Clean, prime, powder, seat.

 

[PeaShooter]

The ss pin work harden the end of the neck. When you size the neck that part of the neck springs back more, creating the flare. Yours is extreme, you may be tumbling longer or for some reason its more aggressive, but the only reason for the ss pins is nasty pick up range brass. Other than that its all bad.

Seems overwhelming that my issue is due to my cleaning method. Also, I am guilty of running the brass for 3 hrs as a standard practice but at times will hit the timer button again for another 3 hrs. I had no idea this could have a negative affect on the brass. I have another question along the same line about when to anneal. I found that after annealing brass it has a galled texture in the neck area where it was annealed. I found that when seating bullets this galled area causes a ton of extra friction when seating. To address this I always clean my brass after the annealing process which eliminates the galling. Any thoughts on this?

 

[243winxb]

I have a NEW QUESTION along the same line about when to anneal. I found that after annealing brass it has a galled texture in the neck area where it was annealed. I found that when seating bullets this galled area causes a ton of extra friction when seating.

This texture usually arises when the brass is heated too quickly or at too high a temperature during annealing, causing rapid grain growth with significant variations in grain size and orientation, resulting in a rough surface appearance.

 

[Kracken McGraw]

decap, Body die/bump/neck, chamfer, Anneal, Clean, prime, powder, seat.

Maybe some of the guys that anneal will jump in here and suggest at what stage of the loading process to anneal your brass..
You answered your own question about the flare, because of running your tumbler too long after sizing .

 

[LRPV]

Personally, I decap, anneal, brush necks with an Iosso brush, size and load. Annealing after sizing makes 0 sense. It's obvious that you've spent a ton of money on this process. I'm not sure where you learned the process you have adopted but I can tell you from experience that it is not all necessary. Sometimes, not always, the simplest solution is the best one. Every operation that you add is a potential screw up.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Seems overwhelming that my issue is due to my cleaning method. Also, I am guilty of running the brass for 3 hrs as a standard practice but at times will hit the timer button again for another 3 hrs. I had no idea this could have a negative affect on the brass. I have another question along the same line about when to anneal. I found that after annealing brass it has a galled texture in the neck area where it was annealed. I found that when seating bullets this galled area causes a ton of extra friction when seating. To address this I always clean my brass after the annealing process which eliminates the galling. Any thoughts on this?

Yep, thats way way too long. My advice is to stop cleaning that way. If your not dropping cases in the dirt stop cleaning them, period. If you are then clean them in a vibratory tumbler with corn cob. Theres no need to clean your brass unless its got grit on it that will harm your dies.

The inside of the necks can be burnished with a stiff nylon brush on a high speed drill. It works for new cases so bullets dont gall, it works on carboned up cases so they seat smooth and it works on fresh annealed cases so they seat smooth. A test you should run is to make up some new brass, dont touch it. No cleaning or annealing. Run it along side your other brass and determine if annealing is helping you. You might be about to drop two processes.

 

[shoot4fun]

I shoot 100/200/300/400 and 600 BR matches at various clubs around Ohio and Indiana. I turn the necks on almost all my ammo but always running into an issue of getting a fare at the end of the neck which causes issues with closing the bolt when shooting. When turning the necks I measure closely and cut the neck thickness according to my math. I want about .002 max clearance so on a .269 barrel I would cut for a 6mm bullet 269-243=26. Clearance 26-2=24 or 12 per side. I would love to cut my brass at 12 and call it a day but when I do I end up with a couple more thousands of lip/flare which causes me to force the bullet into the chamber. I'm using SAC modular dies with shoulder bushings and a mandrel so I can dictate my neck tension and run that die on a Prazipress. I have used other dies (PMA Body) with Redding bushings but still end up with the same flare in the neck. I use an inline Sinclair seating die but have also used Redding micro adj seating dies and both have resulted in a fare in the neck. I have attempted to seat really slowly and carefully and also quickly but in every case I still have a flare. I have asked around a bit to other shooters and to my amazement no one else is experiencing this issue???? On person had an interesting theory about the root cause being that I use a wet rotary drum and SS pins to clean my brass. I just don't see how using water to clean the brass can cause a flare in the neck when seating the bullets. Anyone else having this issue or know what the remedy is? Using Lapua brass and use inductive annealer between every shot.

The correct diagnosis has been given in the cleaning method being the cause. A friend and I both started using SS pins in a rotary tumbler about the same time. Then we both started seeing the same issue as you.
It took some careful investigation, soul searching and head scratching to finally think it may have been the new cleaning method causing it.
Well, I decided to try a couple time in the rotary without the pins because I thought them peening the case mouth was the real issue but the problem persisted. So now every time (rarely anymore) I feel the need to clean and polish brass I use either the rotary tumbler with water, Dawn and Lemishine and chamfer the inside of the necks before loading or the old tried and true (slow boat) method of vibratory tumbling in corn cob.

 

[Sandstorm]

Ive stopped cleaning my brass long ago. Its never seen the dirt on the ground so why go through the bother.
saves me a lot of time loading for matches.

 

[Sandstorm]

when to anneal. I found that after annealing brass it has a galled texture in the neck area where it was annealed. I found that when seating bullets this galled area causes a ton of extra friction when seating

Like Alex said
You need to brush the neck’s before seating bullets.. this is imperative especially after annealing but even when you don’t anneal.
Or you’re going to have a heck of a time seating them smoothly or even to the same depth.

 

[Fclassfool]

I don't understand why you would wet tumble your brass unless it's range pick up, extra clean shiny brass has no effect on accuracy hell I don't do anything but wipe off the necks and brush the inside.

 

[DiRTY DOG]

It's time for this meme again.

Some people like clean brass. Some like clean cars or whatever. Me? I like my brass the same way I like my undershorts: I clean 'em after every use whether they "need it" or not.

 

[Shutstr8r]

I’ll take a crack at it. I quit using ss tumbling pins in about 6 weeks after I got started with it.

Or, it looks to me like you have chamfered the inside of the mouth and have a little too much purchase on the bullet. When you seat the bullet, the base of the bullet is pushing the edge of the case mouth out and not crimping back in during the seating process. I’ve had this happen when I turned necks on my 6x47 Lapua brass. Don’t chamfer as much and see if that fixes the issue.

Just my $0.02

—Darrell

 

[Mike_McAllister]

Interesting. I have seen a very similar issue with brass annealed by somebody else (not me). I wondered if the bras had been overheated. It is logical that heat rises, and the top of the neck will receive the most heat. Just a guess, but I wonder if the top of the necks almost melted slightly; or at least 'sagged' due to the heat, making the top of the neck thicker. In your case, just please check your annealing process and make sure it is solid. Especially since you are annealing after every firing.
--Mike McAllister

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

All easy enough to test, don't anneal for a couple reload cycles. Don't use media when cleaning, I clean dirty(suppressor residue) and brass off the ground, using hot water, shake of lemishine and a drop or 2 of Dawn. Hit the primer pockets with a cleaner tip in the cordless before drying.

 

[Mark W]

Mine look just like yours but happened when necking down only. Never when seating and never after first firing.

I’ve had the exact same experience as you when necking down 243 Win brass for 22-243AI.