Brass resizing

[Spyder1958]

I’ve never seen .002 of spring back but I have seen brass requiring more than one firing before all the pieces are fully formed and in need of bumping.

one thing at a time.. just deal with the 1.559 brass. Are they all at 1.559 prior to sizing ?

Yes sir, all the S&B brass are 1.559
Same as my chamber although these are not from my chamber. The Winchester brass is from another rifle and the brass is 1.562

 

[Martin52]

Post #19 above is a good way to go, just focus on one headstamp and get that right.

 

[Spyder1958]

Post #19 above is a good way to go, just focus on one headstamp and get that right.

I agree and that’s what I’m trying. But the fact remains some pieces will not bump back. Some I can get eventually to bump after messing with them several times. Don’t know if they will be the same tomorrow. They may grow back. Guess I could anneal again, but really they are once fired new factory brass and shouldn’t be hard yet.
I feel like I’m thinking clearly here, but heck my brain doesn’t work as good as it used to

 

[Martin52]

A further thought, check if the base of the die is in contact with the shellholder when the press arm is fully depressed when resizing.

 

[209jones]

Two different brands of brass were probably annealed differently, and are different metallurgy. If you didn't anneal them, wouldn't be at all surprised to see different springback. Try more dwell on them first, see what they do then. What kind of lube in the neck won't make any difference, as long as it's lubed, what you are already doing is adequate, seeing as you are using a mandrel to expand, sizing and expanding are opposite actions to stretching the case, as you shouldn't have an expander button in there. Trying to partial size the case with an FLS die can lengthen it, as the die shoulder isn't in position to be stopping the case shoulder from pushing back up, as you squeeze the body, think of squeezing a balloon.

 

[Spyder1958]

Two different brands of brass were probably annealed differently, and are different metallurgy. If you didn't anneal them, wouldn't be at all surprised to see different springback. Try more dwell on them first, see what they do then. What kind of lube in the neck won't make any difference, as long as it's lubed, what you are already doing is adequate, seeing as you are using a mandrel to expand, sizing and expanding are opposite actions to stretching the case, as you shouldn't have an expander button in there. Trying to partial size the case with an FLS die can lengthen it, as the die shoulder isn't in position to be stopping the case shoulder from pushing back up, as you squeeze the body, think of squeezing a balloon.

Thanks for your thoughts. Helps getting my own brain kickstarted
I’m going to run a test batch back through the annealer again and increase my time in the flame, I’m feeling the S&B needs a little more time in the flame. I report back if I can solve the inconsistency.

 

[Richard Jones]

Questions:
-- How do you know your bud's chamber is larger than yours? I'm not questioning, just asking a question. You can have correct headspace #'s and still have the web too fat for your chamber.
-- Have you measured at the .200 line?
-- Does any of the brass chamber easily in your rifle? If so, I will bow out......

@Martin52 mentioned the base in his post. If your bud's chamber is indeed larger than yours, than it stands to reason that his brass won't fit in your rifle at the .200 line unless it's sized properly at the base, regardless of the shoulder #'s.

I haven't seen anything regarding if the brass will even go in your rifle. That would be a good thing to know.....

It sounds like the 1.559 brass chambers while the 1.6xx won't. Is that correct?

Just spitballing here. Very confusing.

 

[Sandstorm]

Two different brands of brass were probably annealed differently, and are different metallurgy. If you didn't anneal them, wouldn't be at all surprised to see different springback.

Ther.s you first problem,,dont mix brass types as the metallurgy is not the same and will behave differently.
just my 2 c and all its worth

 

[6.5 forever]

Questions:
-- How do you know your bud's chamber is larger than yours? I'm not questioning, just asking a question. You can have correct headspace #'s and still have the web too fat for your chamber.
-- Have you measured at the .200 line?
-- Does any of the brass chamber easily in your rifle? If so, I will bow out......

@Martin52 mentioned the base in his post. If your bud's chamber is indeed larger than yours, than it stands to reason that his brass won't fit in your rifle at the .200 line unless it's sized properly at the base, regardless of the shoulder #'s.

I haven't seen anything regarding if the brass will even go in your rifle. That would be a good thing to know.....

It sounds like the 1.559 brass chambers while the 1.6xx won't. Is that correct?

Just spitballing here. Very confusing.

I have two identical rifles. The head space is with in .001. But one chamber (A) is fatter than (B). Even after sizing, cases from A rifle are hard to chamber in B rifle. Cases are Lapua fired with middle velocity loads.

 

[Richard Jones]

I have two identical rifles. The head space is with in .001. But one chamber (A) is fatter than (B). Even after sizing, cases from A rifle are hard to chamber in B rifle. Cases are Lapua fired with middle velocity loads.

So that sure sounds like a body issue. If your target headspace is met and the brass still won't chamber easily, then the body must be too fat. I'm assuming that the case length is OK.

 

[6.5 forever]

So that sure sounds like a body issue. If your target headspace is met and the brass still won't chamber easily, then the body must be too fat. I'm assuming that the case length is OK.

I believe I read somewhere about a body sizing die that won't touch the shoulder. I didn't look into it because I dedicated my cases to each rifle.

 

[358WCF]

Thanks for your thoughts. Helps getting my own brain kickstarted
I’m going to run a test batch back through the annealer again and increase my time in the flame, I’m feeling the S&B needs a little more time in the flame. I report back if I can solve the inconsistency.

Spyder,

Before you spend a lot of time & effort, have you tried priming any of the S&B brass yet? The 6.5 Cm stuff I got about 4 or 5 years back, the p/pockets are very snug & also way too shallow for any primer in my inventory. I've read of others having similar problems with the stuff. It seems like good stout brass, but just too much fiddling around to make it usable. Mine all sits in the scrap bucket. Just a thought...

 

[6.5 forever]

Spyder,

Before you spend a lot of time & effort, have you tried priming any of the S&B brass yet? The 6.5 Cm stuff I got about 4 or 5 years back, the p/pockets are very snug & also way too shallow for any primer in my inventory. I've read of others having similar problems with the stuff. It seems like good stout brass, but just too much fiddling around to make it usable. Mine all sits in the scrap bucket. Just a thought...

My experience also.

 

[Spyder1958]

Spyder,

Before you spend a lot of time & effort, have you tried priming any of the S&B brass yet? The 6.5 Cm stuff I got about 4 or 5 years back, the p/pockets are very snug & also way too shallow for any primer in my inventory. I've read of others having similar problems with the stuff. It seems like good stout brass, but just too much fiddling around to make it usable. Mine all sits in the scrap bucket. Just a thought...

Yes, I’ve been playing around with S&B for some time doing load development between two hunting rifles. I have two hundred new srp Alpha brass but was saving that for a benchrest gun.
I’m using federal LRP. Haven’t noticed any issues. I’ll pay closer attention to this batch.
I’ve turned the necks on a batch and was testing neck tension as well.
But I just went back to two different batches that are ready to prime and load but the shoulder dimensions are not consistent in those batches as well they are off . 002 at most some only.001 I just ran some of them back through the die and same thing the shoulder will not bump back the .001 or .002 that would put them all at 1.557
I also took 20 cases back out to the shop and increased the annealing time.
First 3 I sized at the same die setting all went to 1.555. Reset die to get 1.557. Resized 6 more it’s staying within.001 of each other.

 

[Spyder1958]

Questions:
-- How do you know your bud's chamber is larger than yours? I'm not questioning, just asking a question. You can have correct headspace #'s and still have the web too fat for your chamber.
-- Have you measured at the .200 line?
-- Does any of the brass chamber easily in your rifle? If so, I will bow out......

@Martin52 mentioned the base in his post. If your bud's chamber is indeed larger than yours, than it stands to reason that his brass won't fit in your rifle at the .200 line unless it's sized properly at the base, regardless of the shoulder #'s.

I haven't seen anything regarding if the brass will even go in your rifle. That would be a good thing to know.....

It sounds like the 1.559 brass chambers while the 1.6xx won't. Is that correct?

Just spitballing here. Very confusing.

Think we’ve got off track somehow. Maybe I put too much information in the beginning or maybe not enough.
I have no problem chambering any of the rounds I’ve reloaded for any gun.
My question and problem is the inconsistency of bumping the shoulders back on a full length resize.

 

[JFrank]

Will the cases that measure 1.562 cycle through your rifle prior to resizing ?
Same question for the cases that measure 1.559
Just curious

 

[Spyder1958]

A further thought, check if the base of the die is in contact with the shellholder when the press arm is fully depressed when resizing.

Sorry Martin I didn’t see your question. Yes the base of die is touching the shell holder, and it actually has a slight cam over to get the bump back.
Since re-annealing at a longer flame time and having them drop in a water bath the shoulder are pushing back to far so I’ve had to back the die back a little it was going .002 too far at the previous setting. So that tells me the brass was too hard to stay bumped back.002.
Im still having the inconsistency but I guess it’s something I’m going to have to live with at the moment.

 

[Spyder1958]

Will the cases that measure 1.562 cycle through your rifle prior to resizing ?

I haven’t tried Jim. I’m playing with these S&B brass and they all measure 1.559
I’m just trying to consistently bump them back.002 only. Annealing this batch longer made a big difference and they easily bump back now but still have a little inconsistency but for what I’m doing with this brass I’ll have to live with it I guess. Luckily I don’t have this problem with my 6BRA brass

 

[J_idaho]

Remove expander, switch to oneshot lube

 

[Spyder1958]

What do they measure before sizing ?
What are you using to measure them ?

Is your annealing time different on the cases, e.g. Win longer/shorter time than the S&B

Sorry TTE, I missed your response.
I measure with a comparator.
Annealing was done separately, all Winchester were annealed together after testing several to get the anneal time correct for each type of brass.
So yes they were annealed a different times and duration.