7mm rem mag 3 different bullets comparison question

[rockwind1]

been trying 3 different types of ammo out of my 7mm rem mag custom hunting rifle. when i reloaded for it, it shot very well, 1/2-3/4 moa ish. 1:9 twist 24" lighter weight hunting type barrel.

when i reloaded, i was using 180 vld's with brand new nosler brass

anyway, i bought 3 different types of ammo with 168 vld's, 180 vld's, and 168 accubond LR.

it's all decent stuff with decent es sd for factory type ammo but the 180 vld's have this weird horizontal dispersal, 2x or 3x way more than the others. i can only assume it is me, but nothing else really changes except the ammo. the 180's have the best vertical though, like .5 moa at 200 yds. (which is my zero)

any thoughts from the collective hive mind on here?

 

[RegionRat]

Why not just work with the bullet that you liked the best? Maybe I am not following the question?

We don't generally discuss vertical in a group at 200 as the same set of issues that come from speed stats out at distance. So we can say vertical about any distance, but when it comes to load development context it would be far more important to look at these at the max distance you would plan to shoot.

If the load isn't happy at distance, you may see everything you see at 200 and even more if the ES is sloppy. On the other hand, if the load is happy at say 600 yards, then by definition the speed stats are good enough. When you see a decent waterline at 600 or 1000 yards, but the groups are wide, you can try tuning with seating depth and charge, but your skills have to match and all the other variables have to be under control.

Most big recoil cartridges in lightweight carry rifles do not shoot like a competition rig, so keep realistic expectations. You need reliable cold bore shots, no sighters or 20 shot strings.

If you really have something running 1/2- 3/4 MOA-ish in a lightweight hunting rig, I would take it and run.

If you just want to see if there is anything more the rig will show you, and you really want to wring it out with 180 grain bullets, then maybe try the Berger Hybrid and see if it does anything dramatic compared to the one that is giving you questions. A hybrid combines the forgiveness of a tangent with the BC of a secant, so they are less jump sensitive but still slippery.

 

[6MMsteve]

Paper trumps all.... u can have a 1 fps diff on the chrono but shoot 9 inches at 600 yards I would shoot what shoots small at distance, plus account for your movement, flinching, Rifle handling U got this don't complicate it...Shoot, find that cartridge and stick with it, reloads can be duplicated conditions are conditions u have to deal with those...watch Winning in the Wind on YouTube he gives out great info

 

[Webster]

been trying 3 different types of ammo out of my 7mm rem mag custom hunting rifle. when i reloaded for it, it shot very well, 1/2-3/4 moa ish. 1:9 twist 24" lighter weight hunting type barrel.

when i reloaded, i was using 180 vld's with brand new nosler brass

anyway, i bought 3 different types of ammo with 168 vld's, 180 vld's, and 168 accubond LR.

it's all decent stuff with decent es sd for factory type ammo but the 180 vld's have this weird horizontal dispersal, 2x or 3x way more than the others. i can only assume it is me, but nothing else really changes except the ammo. the 180's have the best vertical though, like .5 moa at 200 yds. (which is my zero)

any thoughts from the collective hive mind on here?

YEARS AGO I had a Rem 7MM Mag. shot wallet groups with 154gr Hornady Round Nose.

 

[rockwind1]

update: i tried a different bipod, one which has been working good on all my guns, and the group really got better. weird.

 

[nvrpc1]

been trying 3 different types of ammo out of my 7mm rem mag custom hunting rifle. when i reloaded for it, it shot very well, 1/2-3/4 moa ish. 1:9 twist 24" lighter weight hunting type barrel.

when i reloaded, i was using 180 vld's with brand new nosler brass

anyway, i bought 3 different types of ammo with 168 vld's, 180 vld's, and 168 accubond LR.

it's all decent stuff with decent es sd for factory type ammo but the 180 vld's have this weird horizontal dispersal, 2x or 3x way more than the others. i can only assume it is me, but nothing else really changes except the ammo. the 180's have the best vertical though, like .5 moa at 200 yds. (which is my zero)

any thoughts from the collective hive mind on here?

I have been shooting 162 gr ELD-M, Federal Cartridge, 210M primers with 60 gr of IMR 4350 and had good luck as you can see at 1000 yards

 

[searcher]

You can buy ten different factory loads and you will see some that shoot good in your rifle and a lot that don't. Just pick the good one.

 

[std7mag]

I don't buy factory ammo unless I really have to. And then it's just for the cases to reload.

Being hunting rifles, I don't use heavier than 168gr bullets in my 7mm Rem Mag and 7mm Weatherby Magnum.
Nothing in North America at reasonable hunting ranges that the 168gr won't handle.

I found the ABLR to be very accurate, especially at longer ranges. ( I think the advertised BC might be a little low)
But I was less than impressed with the terminal performance.
For a bullet that is supposed to start expanding at 1,300fps, at less than 100 yards it penciled through a deer. Very little internal damage.

For hunting the 150gr NBT performs better than the ABLR.

The Berger VLD is an outstanding performer!
Just stay away from bone.

I'm trying the 168gr Berger Classic Hunter in both rifles this year.

 

[RegionRat]

update: i tried a different bipod, one which has been working good on all my guns, and the group really got better. weird.

Not unusual with a sporting gun in a magnum cartridge.

The way you address the gun with your body and how you "load" that bipod will have a dramatic effect on the POI.

Practice different ways till you see what happens, and then pick the method you will use and practice that till you know your limits when performing under time pressure.

Anything you do that changes how that gun starts moving before that bullet exits will affect the target performance. Big cartridges + light guns = very technique sensitive.

 

[Webster]

update: i tried a different bipod, one which has been working good on all my guns, and the group really got better. weird.

I always shot off the bench with a Harris bipod since that's what I shot with in the field. I always get the legs locked forward and try to keep them locked forward. If you set up with the legs locked forward then push the rifle forward the legs come unlocked backward only held in various positions by the weight of the rifle.

If you push the rifle forward on the bi-pod and one leg slides and the other grips the bench top, the legs are not parallel and one probably has more weight on it than the other.

 

[rockwind1]

I don't buy factory ammo unless I really have to. And then it's just for the cases to reload.

Being hunting rifles, I don't use heavier than 168gr bullets in my 7mm Rem Mag and 7mm Weatherby Magnum.
Nothing in North America at reasonable hunting ranges that the 168gr won't handle.

I found the ABLR to be very accurate, especially at longer ranges. ( I think the advertised BC might be a little low)
But I was less than impressed with the terminal performance.
For a bullet that is supposed to start expanding at 1,300fps, at less than 100 yards it penciled through a deer. Very little internal damage.

For hunting the 150gr NBT performs better than the ABLR.

The Berger VLD is an outstanding performer!
Just stay away from bone.

I'm trying the 168gr Berger Classic Hunter in both rifles this year.

i also have a mark v weatherby 7mm magnum, how do you think it compares to the rem mag? i bought a bunch of brass for it to start reloading but never got around to it. if i remember right, it kicks hards. although not as hard as my 340 weatherby mag in a mark v, yikes.

 

[std7mag]

i also have a mark v weatherby 7mm magnum, how do you think it compares to the rem mag? i bought a bunch of brass for it to start reloading but never got around to it. if i remember right, it kicks hards. although not as hard as my 340 weatherby mag in a mark v, yikes.

I joke around that I bought an $1,800 muzzlebrake, and the rifle came with it.
I got the Weathermark LT.
And it's pretty light.
The magazine is long enough that you can load to the lands.
But the ejection port is short.
Loaded to the lands with the 150gr ABLR is 3.630" COAL. If you want to be able to unload a live round COAL is 3.360.

I wish that Weatherby would make their barrels with a 1:9 twist, instead of the 1:10 twist. So the heaviest bullet that works well is 175gr.

Shooting wise, for the same weight bullet, the Rem Mag and WBY Mag are essentially ballistic twins.

Both are easy to load.

 

[PhilC]

I don't buy factory ammo unless I really have to. And then it's just for the cases to reload.

Being hunting rifles, I don't use heavier than 168gr bullets in my 7mm Rem Mag and 7mm Weatherby Magnum.
Nothing in North America at reasonable hunting ranges that the 168gr won't handle.

I found the ABLR to be very accurate, especially at longer ranges. ( I think the advertised BC might be a little low)
But I was less than impressed with the terminal performance.
For a bullet that is supposed to start expanding at 1,300fps, at less than 100 yards it penciled through a deer. Very little internal damage.

For hunting the 150gr NBT performs better than the ABLR.

The Berger VLD is an outstanding performer!
Just stay away from bone.

I'm trying the 168gr Berger Classic Hunter in both rifles this year.

I like how you think! Developed my 7RM loads in the mid to late 80s, long before the current spate of Nosler bullets. My deer sized game bullet choice was the 150gr BT, for bigger game it was the 160gr PT.

Don't hunt anymore, but if I were I'd still choose the 150gr BT and for larger game upgrade to the 168gr ABLR or maybe the 168 VLD Hunter. Then again, bigger game is what I bought my 338WM for, 250gr PT's are brutal on both ends.

IMHO, there's nothing the 7mm Weatherby will do that much better than the 7RM to justify the cost.

 

[std7mag]

I like how you think! Developed my 7RM loads in the mid to late 80s, long before the current spate of Nosler bullets. My deer sized game bullet choice was the 150gr BT, for bigger game it was the 160gr PT.

Don't hunt anymore, but if I were I'd still choose the 150gr BT and for larger game upgrade to the 168gr ABLR or maybe the 168 VLD Hunter. Then again, bigger game is what I bought my 338WM for, 250gr PT's are brutal on both ends.

IMHO, there's nothing the 7mm Weatherby will do that much better than the 7RM to justify the cost.

I'm glad someone does!! Lol

As I said about the ABLR, it is a very accurate bullet!
And I think the BC is advertised on the low side.
I had corrected the velocity to match when I went from 100 yards to 300 yards on my Strelok Pro.
When I went to 600 yards I was almost 6" high.
Adjusted BC after that and was on at 800, 1,000 yards.

What I really wasn't happy with was the terminal performance.
For supposedly starting to expand at 1,300fps, I hit a buck at "close" distance. Definitely under 100 yards. Thinking closer to 50, but hard to tell in the woods. I didn't range it.
Bullet penciled through doing very little internal damage.
Bullet sized entrance and exit holes.

The 7mm Rem Mag and 7mm Weatherby Magnum are almost ballistic twins, but the Weatherby is still fun to shoot!
Having it now, I wonder why I didn't have one before!
Oh, yeah ..
Money..
Weatherbys aren't Savage.

 

[deadidarren]

been trying 3 different types of ammo out of my 7mm rem mag custom hunting rifle. when i reloaded for it, it shot very well, 1/2-3/4 moa ish. 1:9 twist 24" lighter weight hunting type barrel.

when i reloaded, i was using 180 vld's with brand new nosler brass

anyway, i bought 3 different types of ammo with 168 vld's, 180 vld's, and 168 accubond LR.

it's all decent stuff with decent es sd for factory type ammo but the 180 vld's have this weird horizontal dispersal, 2x or 3x way more than the others. i can only assume it is me, but nothing else really changes except the ammo. the 180's have the best vertical though, like .5 moa at 200 yds. (which is my zero)

any thoughts from the collective hive mind on here?

We're the 180vld bergers if so I'm surprised they were stable with a 1:9 , what is the temp when shooting .

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

"Flakey" with a bipod(s) isn't unusual especially with hunting rifles. Seems like it has to do with flex in the stock and hopping off surfaces. I have a TC dimension-204R, shot off a rear bag and front rest, poi remained the same with Harris bipod and Bog pod death grip. I have changed out the death grip saddle for a ballhead. I mounted an arca plate just forward of the action on the TC stock. Now there is 3" of vertical difference(100 yards) between the rifle mounted on the death grip(arca) and the rear bag/front rest ??? You really only know by actually shooting to know how a rifle will react to ANY change, components, your shooting technique, or means of supporting while shooting. Next range trip, I'm taking both the death grip and bag/rest setup and going to try some dry firing to see if that reveals anything. Or I may have to try mounting the arca plate up near the sling stud, which will unbalance the rifle while on the tripod. Or go back to the saddle, which adds a pound to the carry weight.

 

[STOMP442]

Spending money on a custom rifle to shoot factory ammo out of it is like buying sports car to pick up kids from school. Yeah it works but that's not it's intended purpose. If you have the ability to reload, factory ammo wouldn't even be a consideration in my book unless I was in a pinch and left my reloads at home. I don't care how good or how expensive it is, factory ammo will never shoot as good as ammo tuned to your particular rifle.

 

[rockwind1]

We're the 180vld bergers if so I'm surprised they were stable with a 1:9 , what is the temp when shooting .

It’s pretty hot here, it was anywhere from 80 to 100°. But yes, they seem to stabilize fairly well. I haven’t been having much luck with the 168 ALR’sit’s pretty hot here, it was anywhere from 80 to 100°. But yes, they seem to stabilize fairly well. I haven’t been having much luck with the 168 ablr not sure why

 

[std7mag]

It’s pretty hot here, it was anywhere from 80 to 100°. But yes, they seem to stabilize fairly well. I haven’t been having much luck with the 168 ALR’sit’s pretty hot here, it was anywhere from 80 to 100°. But yes, they seem to stabilize fairly well. I haven’t been having much luck with the 168 ablr not sure why

I think people are trying to seat them too far back.

I've shot them in 5 different 7mm's.
Different rifle manufacturers and a couple of aftermarket barrels.
All of them grouped best for me around 0.02" off the lands.
That going from touching to 0.09" off the lands.