Choosing a new barrel

[KMW 1954]

New barrel for a Savage bolt rifle in 6ARC. Decided upon a Shilen 4 groove Ratchet.

Talked with NSS today to find what was available in a prefit and was offered 3 different 26" profiles and all are threaded along with 1 28" Bull barrel that is not threaded. A custom order Savage prefit has a lead time of up to 22 weeks. So if I were to order a custom it would be a SS, 4 Groove, 26" Bull with a Target Crown not threaded.

Cost of these 4 barrels is that the longer non threaded barrel is about $65.00 less than the threaded. One of the trade-offs being that the longer 28" barrel will not fit in my rifle case.

So I have never used a brake on any of my rifles and am completely clueless in their use. At the same time I do not know if an added 2" in length would be of any real life benefit. BTW the barrel I am using right now is a factory Savage Model 110 22" Medium Varmint barrel.

 

[Dimner]

New barrel for a Savage bolt rifle in 6ARC. Decided upon a Shilen 4 groove Ratchet.

Talked with NSS today to find what was available in a prefit and was offered 3 different 26" profiles and all are threaded along with 1 28" Bull barrel that is not threaded. A custom order Savage prefit has a lead time of up to 22 weeks. So if I were to order a custom it would be a SS, 4 Groove, 26" Bull with a Target Crown not threaded.

Cost of these 4 barrels is that the longer non threaded barrel is about $65.00 less than the threaded. One of the trade-offs being that the longer 28" barrel will not fit in my rifle case.

So I have never used a brake on any of my rifles and am completely clueless in their use. At the same time I do not know if an added 2" in length would be of any real life benefit. BTW the barrel I am using right now is a factory Savage Model 110 22" Medium Varmint barrel.

I'd probably get the one that is closest to what you are looking for regardless of the threading. You don't have to use a brake, you can just install a screw on muzzle protector. I do that quite often on my threaded barrels.

 

[KMW 1954]

Placed order today from NSS for a Shilen SS Match Select, 4 groove Ratchet, 28", non-threaded barrel. Tracking # estimates Weds delivery.

 

[padom]

Curious, why 6 ARC in a bolt gun? By design it was made to fit a higher BC 6mm bullet in an AR mag....

With all the extra room in a bolt gun, you will have much better case capacity and less bullet down in the case with 6BR or similar..

Only reason I could see would be factory ammo...

 

[KMW 1954]

Curious, why 6 ARC in a bolt gun? By design it was made to fit a higher BC 6mm bullet in an AR mag....

With all the extra room in a bolt gun, you will have much better case capacity and less bullet down in the case with 6BR or similar..

Only reason I could see would be factory ammo...

Yes I get asked this question all the time with the same comments.

This is a purpose built rifle to be used in an informal bench league. Shooting distances range 100 to 300 yds. Also shooting an assortment of targets with 60% of them proprietary to this league. Many are X-ring scores, one is an aggregate groups size and one called the snake is a hit or miss with diminishing target dots.

Up until now I have been shooting a 223 and until last year was the only one. So how much bigger or more powerful a cartridge does one need to punch holes in paper? So no reason I see to be shooting a 308, 6.5CM, 6CM, 6GT.

Of 22 members in this group a good majority are shooting some deviate of the 6BR. Then the 6ARC is basically the same as the 6PPC, same parent case, which is well know for short range benchrest shooting. Also when compared next to the 6BR they too are nearly identical with the only real difference is a very small case capacity increase in the BR. But when reloaded to the same capacity with the same components there again is very little difference until the BR is pushed to it's upper limits. Also of the members that are shooting some form of the BR, not one of them is loading to it's max.

The advantage of factory ammo isn't the only aspect. Brass for the 6BR from any manufacture is near impossible to obtain and when it can be found it is at a premium price. From my searches brass for the Dasher is much more readily available than the BR Norma. Then comes finding tooling. Here again it is near impossible to find, dies, headspace gauges, case gauges, I use a Lee case trimmer and they make and have available the die for the Quick Trim.

So let me then ask this, if the 6ARC was designed to use longer high BC 6mm bullets how is it any different than any of the BR derivatives. Both can be loaded to the same lengths so a 105gr bullet does not need to be pushed way down inside the case to fit..

 

[padom]

Its not about how much bigger you need to punch holes in paper. Its about what speed and bullet size do you need to effectively buck the wind at those distances to shoot tiny groups and hit POA. I mean, 6 PPC and 30BR rule the roost at those distances for a reason. We arent talking 308, 6.5cm, 6CM or 6GT. We are talking 6 ARC vs 6BR and its variants.... 6BRA, 6 Dasher, 22BR, etc..


Now to 6BR brass. Its in stock and easy to buy, here are a few examples... Lapua, no its not in stock but Ive been shooting 6BR for a LONG time and peterson 6BR has shot just as good... Here is also Alpha 6BR in stock. Price... its pretty much what its always been $112-$130 for 100rd box. I get 30+ reloads out of 6BR brass so you have to factor that in when comparing costs. You wont get half that from say Starline 6 ARC brass....

Peterson Brass 6mm BR Norma Unprimed Box of 50 - Graf & Sons

Only available at Graf & Sons. All 50 count listings of Peterson Cartridge casings come in one of their plastic ammo boxes. Made in the U.S.A. Match-Grade is a standard that must be held throughout the entire process of manufacturing some of the most consistent, accurate, and durable brass...

www.grafs.com

Alpha 6mm BR Brass with OCD Technology

Product Information Cartridge: 6mm BR Finish: Brass Condition: New Quantity: 100 or 500 *Same Lot Number Primed: No Primer Size: Small Primer Pocket *This is not loaded ammunition.

www.bluecollarreloading.com

ALPHA BRASS 6 BR NORMA UNPRIMED SRP 100/bx - Graf & Sons

Alpha Munitions 6mm BR SRP (Small Rifle Primer) Optimized Case Design with Optimized Case Head Technology Primer pockets sized for small rifle primers 100 count boxes ship in custom Alpha Munitions plastic cases with perforated bi-layer foam for protection of cases and loaded ammunition This...

www.grafs.com

Im not sure where you are searching but 6BR dies are in stock all over.. If you need some help finding let me know but here are multiple FL, FL with bushing.

Redding 6mm BR (Bench Rest), 6mm Norma BR (Bench Rest) Bushing Full

Redding Dies are produced under strict manufacturing processes to ensure the absolute highest quality die possible. Full length dies serve two...

www.midwayusa.com

L.E. Wilson 6mm BR (Bench Rest) Bushing Full Length Sizing Die

The L.E. Wilson Bushing Type Full Length Sizing Die. This die will allow you to size the case neck to your desired neck tension along with sizing down...

www.midwayusa.com

Do you want to seat with arbor or standard press? Here are both in stock and ready to ship. Forster and Wilson

Forster Ultra 6mm BR (Bench Rest) Micrometer Bullet Seating Die

The Forster Bench Rest Ultra Micrometer Seater Die includes all the popular features of the Bench Rest Seater Die, plus an ultra-accurate micrometer...

www.midwayusa.com

L.E. Wilson SS Chamber Type 6mm BR (Bench Rest) Micrometer Bullet

The L.E. Wilson Stainless Steel Chamber Type Micrometer Seater Die features a micrometer seater. Precision adjustment in .001" increments of...

www.midwayusa.com

Here your hard to find 6BR headspace gauges. Both in stock and ready to ship

PTG Go Ga 6mm BR (Bench Rest)

The PTG Headspace Go Gauges are necessary when finish chambering a barrel, or when checking the chamber of a used gun to be sure the headspace...

www.midwayusa.com

PTG No Go Ga 6mm BR (Bench Rest)

Necessary when finish chambering a barrel or when checking the chamber of a used gun to be sure the headspace dimensions are within safe limits. This is...

www.midwayusa.com

 

[padom]

So let me then ask this, if the 6ARC was designed to use longer high BC 6mm bullets how is it any different than any of the BR derivatives. Both can be loaded to the same lengths so a 105gr bullet does not need to be pushed way down inside the case to fit..

Ill answer your question... 6 ARC was designed to fit "longer high BC 6mm bullets" in an AR 2.26" mag. Not a bolt gun that can accommodate WAY longer COALs using AICS pattern mags. But, thats not the real problem here.

The real problem is the chamber/reamers. A 6ARC reamer again was designed to fit these high BC 6mm bullets in an AR mag. To do that, the 108 ELD for example is WAY down in the case compared to a 6BR. We are talking 2.26" vs 2.44"... And, the 6 ARC is a smaller case by a good bit. Usable case capacity on 6 ARC is 29.29gr H20 vs 6BR usable case capacity with the same bullet 34.12gr H20. Total case capacity 6 ARC 34.50gr H20 vs 37.80gr H20 in a 6BR.


With a 6 ARC chamber and a 108 ELD or 105 Hybrid or 107 SMK you are going to hit the lands and cant load out longer with the bullet still down in the case, by design to fit in an AR mag.. You dont have that issue with a 6BR.... Thats the biggest single difference here..

So now begs the question, are you having a custom bolt gun 6 ARC reamer made to get that bullet out of the case to the optimal length with the bullet boattail/bearing surface junction just above the neck/shoulder junction so you can maximize case capacity?? (No point having a 6 ARC bolt gun specific reamer made with longer freebore when you can just go 6BR or its variants)

Or are you getting a 6 ARC bolt gun barrel with the standard 6 ARC AR chamber? Huge difference here and again, no point doing it when you can just go 6BR out the gate with more case capacity, brass life, and inherent accuracy. I havent found a bad shooting bullet in my 6BR's. Consistent 0.1's all day long... To get the speed up in a 6ARC without pressure Lever is the go to powder and CFE 223 is a close second.. You can use other powders but you hit pressure way before velocity is up. Varget for example which is widely used in 6BR has temp stability of 0.13 fps change per degree F... CFE 223 is 1.7-fps change per degree F and Lever is right there with it.

I have a 6 ARC AR and many 6BR's.. Its not even close... Just trying to help you out.


Here 3 5 shot groups @ 100yd from my 6BR Bartlein/Zermatt TL3 zero load development... just popped this new 106 A-Tip into my 105 Hybrid load and shot these 3 consecutive groups @ 100yds...

 

[KMW 1954]

I have a 6 ARC AR and many 6BR's.. Its not even close... Just trying to help you out.


Here 3 5 shot groups @ 100yd from my 6BR Bartlein/Zermatt TL3 zero load development... just popped this new 106 A-Tip into my 105 Hybrid load and shot these 3 consecutive groups @ 100yds...

Thanks, though I am very familiar with what both can do in a 26"-28" barrel first hand. As for the target, I have fired similarly small groups at 100yds with my factory Model 12 223 Savage.

Now tell me what is it going to cost to start a build from zero for both the 6BR and the 6 ARC. using the same make barrel. Start with 100pcs of brass. Then tooling, only requirement is that it all has to be purchased in stock and available today. LMK.

 

[padom]

Thanks, though I am very familiar with what both can do in a 26"-28" barrel first hand. As for the target, I have fired similarly small groups at 100yds with my factory Model 12 223 Savage.

Now tell me what is it going to cost to start a build from zero for both the 6BR and the 6 ARC. using the same make barrel. Start with 100pcs of brass. Then tooling, only requirement is that it all has to be purchased in stock and available today. LMK.

Sure

6 ARC costs more

Barrel - same price for both
Dies - same cost for both
Brass same 100pcs same quality in stock we will go Alpha $130 for 6BR $135 for 6 ARC

Now, you will need a 6.5 Grendel bolt face to run 6 ARC. This isnt something most people have sitting around.. so thats going to cost your for a new bolt, or new bolt head or new donor rifle..

6BR runs on any 308 bolt face rifle. Just screw on your barrel...

So ignoring the fact that 6BR is higher velocity, more case capacity, inherent accuracy across a wide range or bullets and powders unlike 6 ARC, 6BR is also cheaper to build.....

 

[urbanrifleman]

Agreed. Heck, I can get a 6br barrel in a couple of weeks. I am pretty sure you would not be disappointed.

 

[Dimner]

I went through the whole 6ARC vs 6BR dilemma when I was building a rifle. Went with 6BR simply because of the bolt face compatibility with other rounds I wanted to play with. I'm looking at you 30BR and 7BR! The thing I liked about the 6ARC was that I could take 6.5 Grendel brass and reform. So I wouldn't really ever be without brass as long as the Grendel is around. But that was my consideration when I cared more about being able to find brass in 30 years. My thinking changed when I realized my barrel and cartridge preferences will be long changed by then.

However, no one is going to talk or reason @KMW 1954 out of his choice. There are 100% valid arguments either way for a 6arc or 6br.

I have been in a similar situation. I put a custom barrel on my tikka and it was down to the 7mm08 and the 7mm mauser (7x57). I went with the 7mm mauser internets be damned!

 

[Rockchuck]

You make your pick stick with it.its your rifle. He wants the 6arc.really truth is just about all cartridge over lap each other. Most shooters really never no the difference in informal club matches. Build the 6arc now. Then a 6br and so on fun is in the chase. Now when it comes to national level groups shoots there is a difference in what you choose.

 

[KMW 1954]

Well I did just do a quick internet search, 8 different vendors and only found 2 that list any 6BR brass available. Also looks as though tooling has caught back up as 2 years ago when I started the ARC adventure there was no BR to be had. all on Back Order.

As for the Bolt or Bolt Head I am already shooting a Savage 6ARC so those are not needed. Next as a comparative to my 6BRA and Dasher buddies, my ARC loads with the same bullet are only about 50FPS slower.

Also because of the distance we are shooting that if we were able to extend out to 500/600yds then I would be using a Dasher. Besides, as stated, if this doesn't pan out as expected odds are I will be returning to the 223.

 

[Rockchuck]

I would think it will pan out just fine

 

[padom]

Your gonna shoot what you want to shoot. Nothing wrong with that. Saying hey I'm already 2yr invested in 6 ARC makes perfect sense. But saying because there is no brass or dies and they are ballistically the same is false

But same bullet same barrel length.. there is way more than a 50fps difference between 6 ARC and 6BR, BRA and Dasher. A lot more..

What is your 6 ARC load and barrel length that is only 50fps less than the same barrel length same bullet in 6 Dasher or 6BRA ??? I'm very interested in this.

 

[KMW 1954]

But same bullet same barrel length.. there is way more than a 50fps difference between 6 ARC and 6BR, BRA and Dasher. A lot more..

What ever. I guess you missed or just ignored the part of the statement that was none of the group I am shooting with is loading anywhere near max.

 

[Matt_3479]

Starting from new I would 100% go with a br or variant over arc. That said you already made the decision for the arc and I hope it will turns out great. Let us know

 

[KMW 1954]

Thinking about this while eating my dinner and it struck me. I guess I should be thankful that this time I don't have someone insisting I should be using a 6CM for this because it is such a superior round.

Thanks everyone for the responses, no need to further debate the virtues of either.

 

[padom]

What ever. I guess you missed or just ignored the part of the statement that was none of the group I am shooting with is loading anywhere near max.

I read exactly what you posted.

"Next as a comparative to my 6BRA and Dasher buddies, my ARC loads with the same bullet are only about 50FPS slower."

 

[padom]

Nobody ever told you what to go with. I asked you why you chose 6 ARC in a bolt.gun and you gave a bunch of responses like brass is unobtanium and dies don't exist. I was clarifying for anyone else in this situation and DOESNT have a 6 ARC rifle already that 6BR is a way better option and none of that is true. Brass can be bought from multiple places right now and dies are in stock ready to ship. That's all