2024 Olympics 50m Rifle: Cant!

[Brians356]

I was surprised to notice some shooters in Paris with a lot of cant evident in their hold. Of course cant does not affect score if you are consistent shot-to-shot. This photo is from the 2020 2016 Summer Olympics, but is representative of what I am watching on TV as I write this.
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[boltfluter]

I was surprised to notice some shooters in Paris with a lot of cant evident in their hold. Of course cant does not affect score if you are consistent shot-to-shot. This photo is from the 2020 Summer Olympics, but is representative of what I am watching on TV as I write this.
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I think it's all about finding your "natural point of aim" and being comfortable in the process. Or, I am completely off in the weeds somewhere. Lol.
Paul

 

[Dave M.]

Cant doesn’t matter if you are holding (and not dialing) for wind.
Dave

 

[Brians356]

Cant doesn’t matter if you are holding (and not dialing) for wind.
Dave

It's an indoor match, so ...

Do you mean intentionally canting for wind?
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[SteveOak]

If you are shooting at only one distance and not adjusting for wind or elevation, it w(sh)ould not matter.

 

[Brians356]

If you are shooting at only one distance and not adjusting for wind or elevation, it w(sh)ould not matter.

Agree 100%, as long as the cant hold is very consistent. But the effect of cant is not linear, so as cant increases, the consistency becomes more critical and difficult to achieve.
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[TZaun]

50 meter smallbore is shot outdoors. Most shooters, if not all at this level, use rear sights that can rotate to get the sight back to level and compensate for the cant.

Major congratulations to Sagen Maddalena for bringing home a Silver medal in women's 3P smallbore for the U.S. today!!! She is as tough a competitor as there is and truly earned this. She had a solid performance in women's air rifle also, finishing 4th overall.

 

[Brians356]

50 meter smallbore is shot outdoors. Most shooters, if not all at this level, use rear sights that can rotate to get the sight back to level and compensate for the cant.

You're right, it was outdoors! There was no sun out, so it appeared on TV to be indoors. Thanks for the clarification.

I don't see how rotating the rear sight to level compensates for the front sight not being directly above
(plumb to) the muzzle, but if you have a link to an explanation, I'm eager to be educated.


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[TZaun]

 

[Brians356]

My question about the front sight still stands. If both front and rear sights could be rotated into a plane containing the bore line, cant would be eliminated.
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[TZaun]

If you canted the rifle 90 degrees clockwise and had to move your POI to the left 2 scoring rings, would you get there by turning the windage knob? No. If you rotated the rear sight counterclockwise 90 degrees and turned the windage knob you will.

 

[Brians356]

If you canted the rifle 90 degrees clockwise and had to move your POI to the left 2 scoring rings, would you get there by turning the windage knob? No. If you rotated the rear sight counterclockwise 90 degrees and turned the windage knob you will.

Cant also affects vertical, and 90 degrees of cant affects vertical drastically. What is the "sight height above bore" value if (in your example) the front sight's height above bore is now zero?
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[TZaun]

There’s 2 knobs on the sights. 1 for vertical, 1 for horizontal. Each shooter knows how they work and when to turn them. That’s what’s most important. You are either trying to make this way harder than it is or you’re trolling me for some reason. I have nothing further to add.

 

[Rocketvapor]

Super consistent and repeatable hold day in/day out, zero for one range, hold wind on the target, or dial a level corrected rear sight.
We like to lean way over the cheek piece with no cant. Shooter in picture seems to be straight up with stock hard into cheek. Now, who in the world would want a rifle zeroed for just ONE RANGE?

Looks to be about 10 degrees.
Consistency is the key.
Hold the same, zero for range, why wouldn't 10 shots go into the same POI?
We like to think our scope is above bore, but plumb reticle is the trick.

Across the course, different ranges would be a bit more complicated.
Is this any different than offset sights?

 

[Brians356]

Hold the same, zero for range, why wouldn't 10 shots go into the same POI?

As I stated early on, consistent canted hold is not a problem. But my point now is that simply making the rear sight plumb to the bore, but neglecting the front sight's cant, is not eliminating cant. It's only making it easier for the shooter to be consistent. The range being fixed allows the crutch to be practical.
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[Rocketvapor]

Neither sight is plumb to bore.
Plumb to each other, reticle plumb to gravity.
Just think how much better these Olympic shooters could shoot without cant.

Even Hold-For-Wind on the target would get you left/right correction for wind.
High Power shooters could probably Zero canted sights for a single range, and hold on target for wind.
Hit right, move left

 

[Brians356]

Neither sight is plumb to bore.

True.

Plumb to each other,

True, but if you hang a plumb bob from any two points above Earth (like from the centers of the two sight apertures) they will be "plumb to each other".

reticle plumb to gravity.

There's a reticle inside the diopter? (I looked on Anschutz' site, can't find any such details, or a user's manual for Model 7002)
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[Rocketvapor]

Don't know about the sight or how they are installed.
If windage dial isn't plumb then I guess you read the wind, Hit right/move left.
Do they get feedback from shot to shot?

How were scores?
Obviously a coaching error letting them shoot like that.

https://www.chron.com/sports/article/chiara-leone-wins-women-s-50-meter-rifle-3-19615299.php

50M ten ring (22LR) is 10.4mm (0.41")

 

[Brians356]

How were scores?

They see each shot on a tiny video screen attached next to rear sight, as best I can discern.

In the finals, the range of shots I watched were roughly 9.3 to 10.7. I didn't stick it out to the very end.
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[WSnyder]

I was surprised to notice some shooters in Paris with a lot of cant evident in their hold.

It shouldn't be a surprise. Canting a rifle with sights off vertical have been used in competition forever. Are the multi position shooters supposed to rotate sights for every position? I think they choose to leave them as is and figure out (as mentioned above) how to turn the elevation and windage dials to get where they need to be. I'm pretty sure they know their zeros for each position. Tubb has a whole section in his book "the Rifle Shooter" that goes through how why he does it the way he does.