Help me out, tuning with a can

[Bc'z]

Alright folks generally speaking I usually don't have to many issues tuning a rifle.
Trying to help my buddy tune up his Bergara 6.5prc suppressed.
We started off great this morning with a really sweet seating depth test with a .009 window, front side measured .18 back side was .29 @100.
We're loading Vhit 565 140amax cci200
Hornady brass, .288 bushing load was 49gr smack in the middle of Vhit load data.
After seating test it was back to my place to load charge.
Moving in .4gr increments and push past max by .2gr it really wasn't as pretty as I had anticipated, not to mention my buddy felt like he got junk punched.
1st charge looked good then it scattered for 2 more charges, then came back together in the middle then went straight to hell.
I know I need to look at bushings and possibly do a primer test before changing powder.
So here's my questions...
Should we be tuning un-suppressed ?
What's a good powder other than Hodgdon or Alliant?
I have a few pounds Ramshot magnum & Accurate magpro on the shelf.
There has been talk of Lapua brass, but is it really necessary?
Any help I can get from those that shoot the 6.5prc and can shooters would be greatly appreciated.
Brett

 

[DiffEQ]

I'm confused.
You were doing a seating test before establishing a node?
For the second part, are you saying it behaved like a scattergun?

1. Did any of the bullets touch the can?
2. Was the can properly torqued onto the barrel?
3. Was anything else loose on the gun?

 

[Jtate]

Tune with can on. The weight at the end of the barrel affects the harmonics. Some folks also think that suppressors increases pressure.

 

[std7mag]

Hang a weight on the end of a barrel, and it goes out of tune?

Come on Bc'z!!

Cans are only good for HK5 for foreheads at close range.

 

[Straightshooter1]

Alright folks generally speaking I usually don't have to many issues tuning a rifle.
Trying to help my buddy tune up his Bergara 6.5prc suppressed.
We started off great this morning with a really sweet seating depth test with a .009 window, front side measured .18 back side was .29 @100.
We're loading Vhit 565 140amax cci200
Hornady brass, .288 bushing load was 49gr smack in the middle of Vhit load data.
After seating test it was back to my place to load charge.
Moving in .4gr increments and push past max by .2gr it really wasn't as pretty as I had anticipated, not to mention my buddy felt like he got junk punched.
1st charge looked good then it scattered for 2 more charges, then came back together in the middle then went straight to hell.
I know I need to look at bushings and possibly do a primer test before changing powder.
So here's my questions...
Should we be tuning un-suppressed ?
What's a good powder other than Hodgdon or Alliant?
I have a few pounds Ramshot magnum & Accurate magpro on the shelf.
There has been talk of Lapua brass, but is it really necessary?
Any help I can get from those that shoot the 6.5prc and can shooters would be greatly appreciated.
Brett

If the can is going to be used, the tuning should be done with it on.

For my 6.5 PRC, N565 works the best for me and seemed to be the easiest to tune. Other powers that have worked well too is H4831sc and Retumbo (yeah, I know, these are Hodgdon's ). I first tried MagPro when I couldn't get hold of other powders, but found it difficult to get a good tune. I primarily use Lapua brass, but I've used Peterson brass and it too has worked well for me.

My 6.5 PRC is a RPR with a 26" Preferred Barrel Blanks heavy barrel, currently with ,~2000 rounds through it. I tend to load long. Like for Berger 140 Hybrid the COAL is 3.023" with 56.7 grs N565, which give me just over 3,000fps where these Berger's tends to work best and with other powers too. 53.9 grs of H4831sc with COAL of 3.023 did really well in the higher summer heat. It's been a while since I used MagPro. With 140 SMK's 59.4 grs worked with a COAL of 2.857, CBTO 2.342.

Hope this gives you some ideas.

 

[Bc'z]

If the can is going to be used, the tuning should be done with it on.

For my 6.5 PRC, N565 works the best for me and seemed to be the easiest to tune. Other powers that have worked well too is H4831sc and Retumbo (yeah, I know, these are Hodgdon's ). I first tried MagPro when I couldn't get hold of other powders, but found it difficult to get a good tune. I primarily use Lapua brass, but I've used Peterson brass and it too has worked well for me.

My 6.5 PRC is a RPR with a 26" Preferred Barrel Blanks heavy barrel, currently with ,~2000 rounds through it. I tend to load long. Like for Berger 140 Hybrid the COAL is 3.023" with 56.7 grs N565, which give me just over 3,000fps where these Berger's tends to work best and with other powers too. 53.9 grs of H4831sc with COAL of 3.023 did really well in the higher summer heat. It's been a while since I used MagPro. With 140 SMK's 59.4 grs worked with a COAL of 2.857, CBTO 2.342.

Hope this gives you some ideas.

I've got H4350 and 4831sc on hand as well. Was just hoping he didn't have to get into $60 a pound for powder.
I just got off the phone with Zack and he enlightened me on the cartridge a bit and suggested faster powder.

 

[boltfluter]

I always tune with the can on. I always start about .010 into the rifling, only one way to go then. Pick your powder of choice, find the charge, then move on to seating depth if needed. Sorry no help with this particular cartridge. Good luck and keep us posted.
Paul

 

[Bc'z]

I'm confused.
You were doing a seating test before establishing a node?
For the second part, are you saying it behaved like a scattergun?

1. Did any of the bullets touch the can?
2. Was the can properly torqued onto the barrel?
3. Was anything else loose on the gun?

Yes sir, seating 1st mid weight charge of listed data.
Gun is good to go we did a nut n bolt this morning.
It responded to charge rather erratic during charge testing.
Shot good 1st charge next 2 charges opened to over a inch.
4th charge weight tightend up for 3 shots and 1 spitter quite possibly shooter induced then a couple groups over an inch

 

[Bc'z]

I always tune with the can on. I always start about .010 into the rifling, only one way to go then. Pick your powder of choice, find the charge, then move on to seating depth if needed. Sorry no help with this particular cartridge. Good luck and keep us posted.
Paul

Paul after talking with Zack and discussing the cartridge a bit I'm thinking we need to try a faster powder
N555 or H4350

 

[JB10]

I shoot N565 in two different 6.5 prc with excellent groups. One shoots a 156 berger, and the new one i just got im loading for a 140 vldh berger. I have found they shooter better on higher side of charge weight. Im using Lapua brass for both. The 156gr im jumping just over .120thou just to be able to fit in the blind box mag and it shoots 1/4 in at 200 yards. The new rifle with the 140s i found a load last sunday i wanna play more with and its .040 thou jump. What was the highest powder charge you went to? I have data from berger and its way different than what is on VV website.

 

[Bc'z]

I shoot N565 in two different 6.5 prc with excellent groups. One shoots a 156 berger, and the new one i just got im loading for a 140 vldh berger. I have found they shooter better on higher side of charge weight. Im using Lapua brass for both. The 156gr im jumping just over .120thou just to be able to fit in the blind box mag and it shoots 1/4 in at 200 yards. The new rifle with the 140s i found a load last sunday i wanna play more with and its .040 thou jump. What was the highest powder charge you went to? I have data from berger and its way different than what is on VV website.

53.6gr .2 gr over published data, the cci200 still had nice round edges to the spent primers, no swipe or ejector marks.
I would like to see the data from Berger for this cartridge, I should probably give them a holler come Monday.

 

[FeMan]

I have done load development for a half dozen suppressed 6.5 PRCs and have had great luck with H1000 and the 156s. I am not sure how H1000 would work for the lighter bullets but it would be worth a try if you have some available. As said, I would definitely tune suppressed.

If the barrel is short, I would look at the soot buildup with V565. If it is shooting dirty I would definitely change to a faster, single-base powder. I have seen that cause issues in suppressed rifles. .

 

[6BRA]

Paul after talking with Zack and discussing the cartridge a bit I'm thinking we need to try a faster powder
N555 or H4350

H4350 is one of the most temp stable in Hodgdons lineup. It also worked superbly in my 6.5x47. I've seen it work well in Creedmoors..in fact it works very well in a BRA! Good move!

 

[Dan-Schenk]

53.6gr .2 gr over published data, the cci200 still had nice round edges to the spent primers, no swipe or ejector marks.
I would like to see the data from Berger for this cartridge, I should probably give them a holler come Monday.

I think that using the can, you are correct in leaning toward a faster powder. Also the first shot usually purges the oxygen, as well as causes a little bit of pressure difference vs w/o a can. The faster powder should help alleviate this.

 

[G Liles]

I tune with the the suppressor on but if I can’t get it to tune I take it off and try it without the suppressor, the barrel may not like that weight on the end of it.

 

[G Liles]

Cans are only good for HK5 for foreheads at close range

I don’t agree with this statement, I have been very successful running a suppressor in competitions.

 

[Bc'z]

H4350 is one of the most temp stable in Hodgdons lineup. It also worked superbly in my 6.5x47. I've seen it work well in Creedmoors..in fact it works very well in a BRA! Good move!

Mike I learned a lot yesterday talking with Zack
Case capacity is smaller than WSM,& RSAUM, ironically it takes another 10-12gr more powder than my 6.5-284 @48.5gr to accomplish the same thing 3000fps with the same weight bullet, 260ai even less powder for same performance.
My thoughts
So is the 6.5prc really a magnum cartridge or just another marketing ploy like the creedmoor?
I'm coming to the conclusion Hornady has the ability to sell ice water to Eskimo's and hot sauce in Hell.

 

[nakneker]

Mike I learned a lot yesterday talking with Zack
Case capacity is smaller than WSM,& RSAUM, ironically it takes another 10-12gr more powder than my 6.5-284 @48.5gr to accomplish the same thing 3000fps with the same weight bullet, 260ai even less powder for same performance.
My thoughts
So is the 6.5prc really a magnum cartridge or just another marketing ploy like the creedmoor?
I'm coming to the conclusion Hornady has the ability to sell ice water to Eskimo's and hot sauce in Hell.

I actually like the 6.5 PRC. Had a lot of good luck setting up a couple for myself and several for friends. We use N565 a lot with 153.5 and 156gr bullets, N555 finds its way into a lot of the loads for 140gr bullets but we’ve had good results with other powders too, even slow stuff like H1000 and Retumbo, H4831sc has been good too. CCI 250s have been the primer we get the best results with most of the time. It’s been an easy cartridge to work with.

As far as a Hornady selling ice to Eskimos they have that down. Their marketing dept knows how to sell new cartridges and bullets. Can’t deny that

All that being said I’m looking forward to the 260AI for the reasons you stated above.

 

[Bc'z]

I actually like the 6.5 PRC. Had a lot of good luck setting up a couple for myself and several for friends. We use N565 a lot with 153.5 and 156gr bullets, N555 finds its way into a lot of the loads for 140gr bullets but we’ve had good results with other powders too, even slow stuff like H1000 and Retumbo, H4831sc has been good too. CCI 250s have been the primer we get the best results with most of the time. It’s been an easy cartridge to work with.

As far as a Hornady selling ice to Eskimos they have that down. Their marketing dept knows how to sell new cartridges and bullets. Can’t deny that

All that being said I’m looking forward to the 260AI for the reasons you stated above.

Sean I just got off phone with Devon discussing the information I've gleaned in the last 18 hours.
Looking at his seating test I'm thinking of tension test before increasing charge, my thought is if his rifle wants higher tension we should find this out 1st before before maxing out charge and winding up in a over preasure situation.
@JB10 sent me the info from Berger for the 140gr, I'll forward it to you.
Verry interesting the spread in powders used In thier data.
Devon is probably gonna be getting one of those ODCR rifles we love so much before too long

 

[jxb]

Did you start off by picking a load, then shoot with/without can? You should only see POI shift, the group should be same or maybe better with can on. This is simply about eliminating the can as a potential problem up front, they are not all created equal.