22 K-Hornet Brass Recommendation?

[RussellJ]

I'm looking for 22 K-Hornet Brass recommendation. I have a Cooper Model 38 rifle and my 1st fireforming load and 2nd timed loaded fireformed load shot fantastic however, the primer pockets are now so loose that some of the primers will fall out of the brass.
Current Brass: Win 22 Hornet in the old Blue Bag
Powder: Little Gun 12.6grn.
Primer: Win Small Rifle
Bullet: Nosler 40grn Tipped (jammed into the rifling)
I did a little research a while back on the Sauber forum and I should have back down the load after fireforming. I'm open to suggestions!!! Anyway, currently my 22 Hornet brass options are the Win in the Re Bag, Nosler and Hornady. What of the three available 22 Hornet brass is the best for fireforming into 22 K-Hornet?

 

[Mark M.]

I used Prvi Partizan, aneeling first is a must

 

[SeabeeKen]

While I dont have a K-hornet, I do have a hornet. I found a lot of split necks with Win brass. It seems very brittle. If you have to use it I would do as Mark says and anneal first. Nosler or Hornady should be fine. PPU is also good. I use PPU in several cartridges and never an issue.
You 12.6 gr should have been fine unless jamming the bullets sent pressures up. My Sierra manual didnt list Lil-Gun for the K-hornet but did in the hornet.

 

[SteveOak]

I am loath to be the Neggie-Nellie, but;

1. 22 Hornet is not a suitable candidate for hotrodding.
2. I am not aware of any 22 Hornet brass that is particularly 'available'.

I have considerable experience with 22 Hornet as it is a good candidate for Taco Hold for Pistol Silhouette.

 

[SeabeeKen]

I am loath to be the Neggie-Nellie, but;

1. 22 Hornet is not a suitable candidate for hotrodding.
2. I am not aware of any 22 Hornet brass that is particularly 'available'.

According to Sierra data and QL he was not hot rodding it at all unless he was using a 224 diameter bullet.
a .224 diameter bullet would have put the load at 73,000 psi

 

[Mark M.]

Try H-110

 

[SteveOak]

According to Sierra data and QL he was not hot rodding it at all unless he was using a 224 diameter bullet.
a .224 diameter bullet would have put the load at 73,000 psi

Yet the results, loose primer pockets in a few firings, would speak otherwise.

 

[SEM]

anneal, neck to 243, back the FL die up and then down until the bolt just closes with out to much force trial and error to create a false shoulder, seat as long as possible I used imr 4227 and bluedot, Annealing can be done after the false shoulder if you are getting to many crushed shoulders, but needs to be done to prevent split shoulders

 

[SeabeeKen]

Yet the results, loose primer pockets in a few firings, would speak otherwise.

Yet the information he provided indicates its safe, so his information is skewed in some way. I suspect a .224 bullet may have been fired in it. His 12.6 gr Lil-gun is perfectly safe in a hornet

 

[3Ackleys]

I used Prvi Partizan, aneeling first is a must

How exactly does annealing keep his primer pockets from becoming loose?

 

[3Ackleys]

According to Sierra data and QL he was not hot rodding it at all unless he was using a 224 diameter bullet.
a .224 diameter bullet would have put the load at 73,000 psi

All Hornets since the 1940's use .224" bullets.

 

[dellet]

Oh yes, the mystery of Lilgun and excessive pressure with “safe loads”. Always good to check more than one source for that powder.

1680 is my preferred powder. Rarely split a neck.

 

[SteveOak]

@SeabeeKen

No Ken, the information he provided, loosened primer pockets, indicate a hot load. LOL

Primers and primer pockets have the final say. They cannot read loading data. LOL

 

[Webster]

I'm looking for 22 K-Hornet Brass recommendation. I have a Cooper Model 38 rifle and my 1st fireforming load and 2nd timed loaded fireformed load shot fantastic however, the primer pockets are now so loose that some of the primers will fall out of the brass.
Current Brass: Win 22 Hornet in the old Blue Bag
Powder: Little Gun 12.6grn.
Primer: Win Small Rifle
Bullet: Nosler 40grn Tipped (jammed into the rifling)
I did a little research a while back on the Sauber forum and I should have back down the load after fireforming. I'm open to suggestions!!! Anyway, currently my 22 Hornet brass options are the Win in the Re Bag, Nosler and Hornady. What of the three available 22 Hornet brass is the best for fireforming into 22 K-Hornet?

The only way you can get loose primer pockets is with hot loads regardless what the manual tells you. Common sense would tell you that only pressure can move the brass. Every rifle is different. You might have a tight barrel?

 

[RCE1]

I always used 11 grains of 1680

 

[Mark M.]

How exactly does annealing keep his primer pockets from becoming loose?

The question was brass recommendations, Prvi P. brass is my recommendation, its a thicker harder brass, pockets hold up very well to heavier loads, but needs to be annealed before fire forming other wise necks split.
I guess I should have been more clear spelling that out.
My sincere apologies

 

[bozo699]

The question was brass recommendations, Prvi P. brass is my recommendation, its a thicker harder brass, pockets hold up very well to heavier loads, but needs to be annealed before fire forming other wise necks split.
I guess I should have been more clear spelling that out.
My sincere apologies

You didn’t need to spell it out it was obvious. Thanks for the info on the privi brass!… where do you get this brass at I would like to try some.

To the op,
I’ve never lost a primer pocket in a hornet, always lose a neck first or signs of case head separation. I’ve never annealed my hornet brass as I don’t have that plate for my annealer although I just bought another hornet off here and may start. Losing a primer pocket can only happen with too much pressure, if your wanting speed the hornet isn’t for you, improved case is for case life mostly. I have wore out several hornet barrels and that takes a lot of shooting, always used AA 1680 , if I ran out H110 but mostly 1680 I tried them all and it’s been the best for me. I think 11.5 grains of 1680 and my cases lasts a long time. It’s a small case so for best accuracy you need to measure each load don’t throw your charges. I use small pistol primers but CCI 400 was designed for low pressure rounds like the hornet, I have better luck with pistol primers.
If your jamming to get a better formed case lower your charge to no more than middle for hornet not k hornet!… remember it’s not a k hornet until after its formed, someone mentioned making a false shoulder, I have not formed k hornet but have used a false shoulder for 6brx and dasher and like it wayyyy better than jamming, lots less pressure. Good luck and by the way Winchester has always lasted the longest for me outta win, rem or Hornaday I haven’t tried the privi but will order some tomorrow if it’s available and I can find out where.
Wayne

 

[dellet]

Interesting thoughts in this thread.
The original question was basically, Im blowing out the primer pockets in three firings using Winchester Blue bag brass. Of the following choices, which brass will hold up better?

Answers
Use brass not listed and not a available
Back off the load.

No doubt PPU brass is tougher, but part of the reason for that is that it’s thicker and has less case capacity.

The powder of choice is known to spike at the top end of loads.

The fire forming load is roughly 15% over the bullet manufactures, Nosler, max load. Add that the bullet is being jammed.

A Quick Look at some issues

Swapping to PPU brass will raise the pressure, hopefully its toughness will compensate for the added pressure.

There is no need to jam the bullet or create a false shoulder to fire form the Hornet brass to K Hornet. It’s a RIMMED case. The brass is held in place by the rim. Load it in the chamber and fire it, a reduced load will help reduce splits, but it really should be in the 1% or less range.

Personally I’d ditch the Lilgun, load some mild loads of 1680 to fire form, then work up a K load using the same powder and never really worry about pressure again.

When you can find some PPU brass, re work the load.

Right now, your problem is more likely powder choice and volume than anything brass related. Other than needlessly jamming the bullet on a rimmed case.

 

[JohnHenry]

According to Sierra data and QL he was not hot rodding it at all unless he was using a 224 diameter bullet.
a .224 diameter bullet would have put the load at 73,000 psi

Cooper 22KH barrels have a .224 groove diameter.

 

[RussellJ]

Interesting thoughts in this thread.
The original question was basically, Im blowing out the primer pockets in three firings using Winchester Blue bag brass. Of the following choices, which brass will hold up better?

Answers
Use brass not listed and not a available
Back off the load.

No doubt PPU brass is tougher, but part of the reason for that is that it’s thicker and has less case capacity.

The powder of choice is known to spike at the top end of loads.

The fire forming load is roughly 15% over the bullet manufactures, Nosler, max load. Add that the bullet is being jammed.

A Quick Look at some issues

Swapping to PPU brass will raise the pressure, hopefully its toughness will compensate for the added pressure.

There is no need to jam the bullet or create a false shoulder to fire form the Hornet brass to K Hornet. It’s a RIMMED case. The brass is held in place by the rim. Load it in the chamber and fire it, a reduced load will help reduce splits, but it really should be in the 1% or less range.

Personally I’d ditch the Lilgun, load some mild loads of 1680 to fire form, then work up a K load using the same powder and never really worry about pressure again.

When you can find some PPU brass, re work the load.

Right now, your problem is more likely powder choice and volume than anything brass related. Other than needlessly jamming the bullet on a rimmed case.

Thank you everyone for the guidance. I do have pound of A1680 powder, 100pcs. of Winchester (Red bag) 22 Hornet brass and a Bench-Source annealer. I also see that the Nosler 22 Hornet brass is available.
I learned valuable a lesson on 1st attempt fireforming 22 K-Hornet brass. The original load shot fantastic while the brass lasted(2 firings). Live and learn...
Additional information:
Years ago, I tried fireforming K-Hornet brass with the #8302 Hornady 35grn Varmint Express factory ammo, in my Cooper 22 K-Hornet rifle. The primers backed out of the factory ammo to the point that the bolt didn't want to open. So, I do believe jamming the bullet into the rifling is a must when fireforming.