SRbr

[gpoldblue]

Just out of curiosity. For short range benchrest, has anyone ever shot anything other than a 6ppc and won consistently, or was at least competitive? Whether it be on a national, state or club level.

In all of the 50 years of the PPC,I have to believe of all the wildcatters,experimenters,etc including the TallDog,WallDog,SmallDog,whatever that's been in the hands of shooters far greater than most of us,that SOMEBODY would have found SOMETHING better and more consistant than the PPC!!! PPC is like the Hemi's of NHRA Top Fuel & Funny Car. I look at what the winners use........these shooters can shoot ANYTHING they want,but the PPC is what they choose..

 

[jackieschmidt]

In all of the 50 years of the PPC,I have to believe of all the wildcatters,experimenters,etc including the TallDog,WallDog,SmallDog,whatever that's been in the hands of shooters far greater than most of us,that SOMEBODY would have found SOMETHING better and more consistant than the PPC!!! PPC is like the Hemi's of NHRA Top Fuel & Funny Car. I look at what the winners use........these shooters can shoot ANYTHING they want,but the PPC is what they choose..

^^^^^^^^
That’s right.

Through my close to 30 years shooting Benchrest, I have seen about every concoction possible.
In the Group Shooting, the 22PPC 100 short is probably as good as the 6PPC, but for decades the Sporter caliber restriction of .23 and above kept a lot of shooters away from it, since you could shoot a 6PPC Sporter in all four classes.

Since the Sporter Rule change several years ago, (doing away with the caliber restriction), LV has taken the place of the “go to Rifle” for shooters who don’t even bother building a Heavy Varmint or Sporter.

I thought when the rule change came about, we would see more 22 caliber rifles. But it hasn’t happened.

It’s not uncommon to see shooters shoot the same Light Varmint 6PPC in all three bag gun classes.
As for Sporter, nobody bothers to take advantage of the relaxed stock and barrel profile rules. Everybody just shoots their Light Varmint in Sporter.

At the last Group Nationals I attended in Phoenix a couple years ago, there was not one true Sporter being shot in Sporter. Everybody just told their Light Varmint that for that morning, it was a “Sporter”.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Ain't got much time or need to argue this much more but I do wonder how many people have honestly spent 1/10th of the time on a Grendel based wildcat, or several others, as they have learning a ppc. I mean, it is what it is. The logic that only one of those two can be competitive is just not true and I have proven just that. Maybe not to all, but to myself. They are extremely similar in shape and dimensions. There simply can't be a lot of difference either way, and I mean either way. I hear talk of some powder lots being too slow. Well, guess what might help that...a tad more capacity. We're splitting mighty fine hairs here. By far and away the biggest differences are the name and between our ears or what we believe, and that matters. A 30 cal Grendel wildcat owns the record for smallest five shot 100 yard group ever fired but just watch people write that off as a fluke in 3,2,1...
Hope ya'll have a great rest of the day.

 

[jackieschmidt]

Ain't got much time or need to argue this much more but I do wonder how many people have honestly spent 1/10th of the time on a Grendel based wildcat, or several others, as they have learning a ppc. I mean, it is what it is. The logic than only one of those two can be competitive is just not true and I have proven just that. Maybe not to all, but to myself. They are extremely similar in shape and dimensions. There simply can't be a lot of difference either way, and I mean either way. I hear talk of some powder lots being too slow. Well, guess what might help that...a tad more capacity. We're splitting mighty fine hairs here. By far and away the biggest differences are the name and between our ears or what we believe, and that matters. A 30 cal Grendel wildcat owns the record for smallest five shot 100 yard group ever fired but just watch people write that off as a fluke in 3,2,1...
Hope ya'll have a great rest of the day.

Ok. 3,2,1,0

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Ok. 3,2,1,0

.0077

 

[Kiwishooter]

When starting in short range BR there is a learning and tuning curve, bags, rests, prepping brass, shooting over flags, tuning loads etc.
If you shoot the PPC it is a KNOWN performer so if it isn't performing it's either you or something you are doing.
Going with the PPC then you have access to knowledge from others, but if using a different cartridge then does what works in the PPC also work in the other cartridge.

Start with a PPC and learn what you need to learn to be competitive, once you are competitive that is the time to experiment/try other cartridges, otherwise how do you know if it's a fault with you or the cartridge you are shooting.

Ian

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Not what I'd call reinventing the wheel. Maybe it is, but with a different parent case.

 

[Leadfarmer]

When starting in short range BR there is a learning and tuning curve, bags, rests, prepping brass, shooting over flags, tuning loads etc.
If you shoot the PPC it is a KNOWN performer so if it isn't performing it's either you or something you are doing.
Going with the PPC then you have access to knowledge from others, but if using a different cartridge then does what works in the PPC also work in the other cartridge.

Start with a PPC and learn what you need to learn to be competitive, once you are competitive that is the time to experiment/try other cartridges, otherwise how do you know if it's a fault with you or the cartridge you are shooting.

Ian

I'm new to bench rest. That being said, I've been reloading for some years now. 6br, .223, 6.5 Grendel, 6CM, 308 win, 7mm-08, etc. I can tune a load and troubleshoot issues.

Not sure why everyone automatically thinks I'm going to compete. Nor why everyone would say 6ppc when I just asked what cartridges OTHER than 6ppc haha. Not upset by the way, but I never plan on competing on a national or probably even a state level. At the most I'll be competing in club matches.

That being said, perhaps everyone is right and a 6PPC is the easy button. I was just more curious than anything.

From my understanding Lapua 220 russian isn't even being produced anymore, so right off the bat I'd be pissing in the wind trying to find components or at least the best components.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

I'm new to bench rest. That being said, I've been reloading for some years now. 6br, .223, 6.5 Grendel, 6CM, 308 win, 7mm-08, etc. I can tune a load and troubleshoot issues.

Not sure why everyone automatically thinks I'm going to compete. Nor why everyone would say 6ppc when I just asked what cartridges OTHER than 6ppc haha. Not upset by the way, but I never plan on competing on a national or probably even a state level. At the most I'll be competing in club matches.

That being said, perhaps everyone is right and a 6PPC is the easy button. I was just more curious than anything.

From my understanding Lapua 220 russian isn't even being produced anymore, so right off the bat I'd be pissing in the wind trying to find components or at least the best components.

I'm not aware of Lapua PERMANENTLY discontinuing anything but their Grendel brass production was suspended. Not sure of any accurate eta. Several cartridges are in the same boat where that's concerned. In the meantime, we gotta do whatever we can to get by. I stocked up on Grendel brass and I'm OK for a little while...especially if I don't shoot more than I've been able to of late. But it's an ongoing issue for a while now. I've used 220 brass to form into Grendel. Best I can do it get it about .016 or so shorter than my Grendel trim to length. Shot fine but more space ahead of the end of the case than I'd like.

 

[AlNyhus]

Not sure why everyone automatically thinks I'm going to compete. Nor why everyone would say 6ppc when I just asked what cartridges OTHER than 6ppc haha. Not upset by the way, but I never plan on competing on a national or probably even a state level. At the most I'll be competing in club matches.

Will you be shooting Group or Score formats? And what will the gun weight? These two things will get you headed in the right direction. -Al

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

The popular answer is a 30BR for score and a 6PPC for group. I'm not a HOF'er and and beat both at both, respectively, with different cartridges, quite a bit. Nothing wrong with the status quo. Both are freakin excellent choices. But both are cultish.

I consider myself maybe a slightly better than average shooter but I've have above average results. I don't attribute the results to either cartridge but rather, hard work with whatever I shoot with respectably well. Luck only goes so far. You earn the rest at the practice bench. There is no cartridge that overcomes that fact.

If ya don't put in the work, somebody might show up and beat ya with a turdy-turdy.
What's his name Al...Michael Turner? Having trouble remembering.

Here we go...a 30-30?

is the 30-30 cartidge inaccurate?

I had always heard that the 30-30 wasn't very accurate, was this line of thinking due more to the lever action rifles than the cartridge? I was contemplating buying a quality single shot and reloading pointed bullets, but if the cartridge isn't up to par, I will go another direction. thanks

forum.accurateshooter.com

 

[Leadfarmer]

Will you be shooting Group or Score formats? And what will the gun weight? These two things will get you headed in the right direction. -Al

Definitely more group than anything and I'd like to keep it under 13, but I'm also considering keeping it under 10.5 so if I do happen to stumble on a club that does have strict rules I can use it for either class. But I'm leaning toward a HV contour, just for the added weight and I figure by the time I burn that HV barrel out I'll have grasped the basic fundamentals and could go down in weight.

 

[AlNyhus]

Be sware that just plopping a HV barrel on a 10.5 lb LV gun can result in nasty nose heavy thing.

 

[Bronsin]

Don't hold your breath. They also said they were going to make 30BR brass and as we all know it never happened.

It exists. I've had it in my hands, and so have a couple of others testing it. Pressure isn't a problem with it either.

 

[Leadfarmer]

Be sware that just plopping a HV barrel on a 10.5 lb LV gun can result in nasty nose heavy thing.

Been looking at contours and stocks, and that is another worry of mine. I had a real light stock on a HV 6br barrel and it was very nose heavy. I have looked at a couple stocks and I check out dima BR stocks and they come in a 4.6 pounds. Does that seem heavy? I'm going to use the panda action I just bought. Maybe in a couple weeks I'll post a wanted ad in the classifieds here.

 

[AlNyhus]

A Dima stock of that weight is well over 2lbs too heavy for a 10.5 lb LV gun.

 

[Jayplace]

Just out of curiosity. For short range benchrest, has anyone ever shot anything other than a 6ppc and won consistently, or was at least competitive? Whether it be on a national, state or club level.

That answer is yes, other cartridges have been used to win shooting SRBR. It has been a while though for anything else to consistently win other than 6PPC. I assume we are talking for group shooting. The .222 was very prominent at one time, but once the PPC came out it has dominated. On the other hand, the 30BR dominates the VFS Benchrest.

 

[AlNyhus]

Figured as much.

For a LV gun, you can start with the barrel weight at 5/2 and work from.there...stock, trigger, trigger guard, rings, scope, etc.

Well balanced and good shooting 10.5 lb guns can be done with the standard NBRSA Hunter contour barrel with the shank at 1.200..they are actually stiffer than a LV contour. With all the shank length, they'll come in at 4/14 at 21".

 

[gpoldblue]

Ain't got much time or need to argue this much more but I do wonder how many people have honestly spent 1/10th of the time on a Grendel based wildcat, or several others, as they have learning a ppc. I mean, it is what it is. The logic that only one of those two can be competitive is just not true and I have proven just that. Maybe not to all, but to myself. They are extremely similar in shape and dimensions. There simply can't be a lot of difference either way, and I mean either way. I hear talk of some powder lots being too slow. Well, guess what might help that...a tad more capacity. We're splitting mighty fine hairs here. By far and away the biggest differences are the name and between our ears or what we believe, and that matters. A 30 cal Grendel wildcat owns the record for smallest five shot 100 yard group ever fired but just watch people write that off as a fluke in 3,2,1...
Hope ya'll have a great rest of the day.

Go for it!!! You do everything to that Grendel case,or any case,you know how to do and prove the world is wrong.
Good luck and stay safe.
BTW... those small group records were and are flukes since they couldn't be repeated.
Records like those should be only if they can be "backed up" like records set at Bonneville. What you do once in lifetime and can't be repeated don't mean much.....a lot of shooters shoot flukes.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Go for it!!! You do everything to that Grendel case,or any case,you know how to do and prove the world is wrong.
Good luck and stay safe.
BTW... those small group records were and are flukes since they couldn't be repeated.
Records like those should be only if they can be "backed up" like records set at Bonneville. What you do once in lifetime and can't be repeated don't mean much.....a lot of shooters shoot flukes.

Absolutely no offence intended but just a serious and pertinent question..What is your level of experience with a 6 Grendel? On a lighter note, would a 6 ppc improved shoot better?

It's a good case, it just is. The majority of people who knock something different have not tried it for themselves or have very little experience with it. Just reporting my own experience with both. That is... while I can't say one is clearly better than the other, my results over the years in registered br competition have been better for me using a 6 Grendel than with a 6 ppc..or any other cartridge for that matter. I don't knock a ppc, it's great but I don't feel hamstrung in the least without it either.

I enjoy shooting something different. It keeps me driven. I think a lot of people would shoot a no turn ppc if they felt like they could be competitive with it, especially if that meant no fire forming and just a simple one step neck down operation, then load and shoot. That's what I get from using a Grendel case. Really nothing more and nothing less, other than maybe just a tad more fps if I step on it. Otherwise, they are remarkably similar. Strikingly even.

The 30 Grendel, essentially what Stinnett shot the record with, may be even better than the 6 but its a 30 and hard to shoot as consistently well with vs a 6. Here's a couple of 5 shot groups that were back to back, with it, fwiw. Of course these happen while practicing rather than a match, though.