Changing a chamber for ammunition

[Matt_3479]

I’ve shot and owned a lot of nice rimfires, but something I’ve never really thought of was if a barrel isn’t shooting an ammo you would rather shoot, could trying a different chamber help get that ammo to shoot?

I prefer to shoot eley match as I’m able to spot it easier for prs. My barrel currently is shooting okay, but not winning any awards with eley. It will shoot Lapua center x significantly better so I’ll be running that. I’m curious though, could rechambering it for a different chamber tighten up or help the eley to perform better?

 

[CharlieNC]

Eley has thinner rims, you may see an improvement by just adjusting head space.

 

[grauhanen]

That would be a neat trick if changing to a different chamber solved ammo problems. It could mean an end to testing different lots to find the most consistent among them. A shooter could buy a certain brand and be guaranteed better results -- all because of a certain chamber.

One the other hand, if the performance problem was mostly because the ammo itself changing to a different chamber might not be the best answer. Serious shooters usually lot test to find the best ammo, even when using an ammo specific chamber.

What to do? Trick or tried and true method? Hmm... Change the chamber or look for better ammo?

 

[SteveOak]

If you are talking about setting the barrel back and cutting a new chamber with dimensions more suitable to Eley Match, yes, it could.

 

[Hi-NV Shooter]

I’ve shot and owned a lot of nice rimfires, but something I’ve never really thought of was if a barrel isn’t shooting an ammo you would rather shoot, could trying a different chamber help get that ammo to shoot?

I prefer to shoot eley match as I’m able to spot it easier for prs. My barrel currently is shooting okay, but not winning any awards with eley. It will shoot Lapua center x significantly better so I’ll be running that. I’m curious though, could rechambering it for a different chamber tighten up or help the eley to perform better?

What are you shooting? I want to guess a Vudoo? if so, I believe they are setup from the factory to maximize on Lapus ammo.
Eley likes 2 degrees on the leade Lapua 1.5 however a good smith can make either shoot. just matching up ammo is a little more involved.
Currently Lapua is the go-to ammo. Eley not so much. maybe you just need to search and test more lots of Eley.
Some of the inexperienced claim you can't set up a barrel for a specific brand. Kevin Nevius had proved that incorrect. all my barrels are chambered for Lapua using his specific chamber specs. here is a good example of untested ammo shot for the first time. my last match using this same lot gave me a 2300
this target is a 2500 and a 2350 and yes #10 & 12 did plug in.

Lee
PS all my current ammo I am shooting was bought blind no testing.

 

[TRSR8]

Eley has thinner rims, you may see an improvement by just adjusting head space.

You will not, nobody does this. Most BR guns are set .043”-.044” and I doubt there is a difference,

 

[TRSR8]

I’ve shot and owned a lot of nice rimfires, but something I’ve never really thought of was if a barrel isn’t shooting an ammo you would rather shoot, could trying a different chamber help get that ammo to shoot?

I prefer to shoot eley match as I’m able to spot it easier for prs. My barrel currently is shooting okay, but not winning any awards with eley. It will shoot Lapua center x significantly better so I’ll be running that. I’m curious though, could rechambering it for a different chamber tighten up or help the eley to perform better?

What you have is an ammo selection issue not a chamber issue, a good barrel with a proper chamber will shoot anything of quality.
One hell of a lot of great guns crushing matches with Lapua, lots of them were chambered initially for ELEY and they neither got re barreled or re chambered. Far too many examples out there to suggest chambers done for specific ammo is largely a myth
There appears to be some good ELEY lots but unfortunately they are a distinct minority.

 

[Matt_3479]

This was more of a curiosity thing as the price to set back and rechamber when its shooting well with Lapua would be idiotic. Rimfire is just a tricky animal and was just thinking the other day in regards to this.

I just wasn’t sure if a barrel that shows promise would improve or worsen with a different chamber for a specific brand of ammo. I know there are chambers designed for specific manufacturers of ammunition but that’s not to guarantee they will work.

 

[Tony K Harper]

What you have is an ammo selection issue not a chamber issue, a good barrel with a proper chamber will shoot anything of quality.
One hell of a lot of great guns crushing matches with Lapua, lots of them were chambered initially for ELEY and the neither got re barreled or re chambered. Far too many examples out there to suggest chambers done for specific ammo is largely a myth
There appears to be some good ELEY lots but unfortunately they are a distinct minority.

What you have is an ammo selection issue not a chamber issue, a good barrel with a proper chamber will shoot anything of quality.
One hell of a lot of great guns crushing matches with Lapua, lots of them were chambered initially for ELEY and the neither got re barreled or re chambered. Far too many examples out there to suggest chambers done for specific ammo is largely a myth
There appears to be some good ELEY lots but unfortunately they are a distinct minority.

I agree. Up until about 2014 Eley ruled the roost in RFBR. (note: before that Lapua gold box was king). Things happened at Eley and quality control went to hell.

It became difficult to find good lots. About the same time Joe Besche started kicking everyone butt shooting Lapua. Nearly everyone made the transition to Lapua and very few changed chambers. The same guys and rifles that were winning before with Eley were again winning with Lapua.

With that said on average the rim thickness on Lapua is a little thicker than Eley, and too tight headspace can and does cause fliers. It is possible to have a chamber that will shoot Eley well but not shoot Lapua without an occasional flier. In that case the problem could be solved with a thou or two of additional headspace.

But when it is all said and done good ammo, is good ammo, and will shoot well in any rifle capable of shooting well. There is probably less than 10 percent of the rifles on the line capable of delivering their full potential.

Now days with our .043-.044 headspace, the chamber unless not cut/finished properly should not be an issue. As for the 1.5 vs 2.0 leade. The difference is so small it would be very hard to tell the difference. That small difference does affect bullet engraving but again very little.

Not many shooters would ever see a difference.

TKH

 

[PWNolan]

There is probably less than 10 percent of the rifles on the line capable of delivering their full potential.

That's an interesting statement Mr Tony. I had to read it a few times to make sure I was reading correctly. Assuming you're referring to the rifles themselves (not the shooters or the ammo they're using) what would you say is holding 90% of the rifles back?

I spent a lot of time with both my rifles over the winter. It's early but they seem to be shooting better than ever. I'm doing my best to get them closer to that 10%

 

[Tony K Harper]

That's an interesting statement Mr Tony. I had to read it a few times to make sure I was reading correctly. Assuming you're referring to the rifles themselves (not the shooters or the ammo they're using) what would you say is holding 90% of the rifles back?

I spent a lot of time with both my rifles over the winter. It's early but they seem to be shooting better than ever. I'm doing my best to get them closer to that 10%

I am only talking about the rifle.

Shooters are a whole other thing. Not only do shooters have different abilities but there are many ways to set up a rifle that will prevent the shooter from being able to deliver his/her best performance even if the shooter has great wind reading abilities and gun handling techniques. But that was not what I was talking about.

As simple as our actions are, there is still many parts and pieces that can prevent a rifle from shooting to its potential or able to be shot to its true potential.

It is my belief that the rifle must be tuned to get the most out of it and I'm not just talking about twisting the muzzle device.

To illustrate my point, I will invite your attention to a recent thread where I showed pics of three different gauges used to set the break point of triggers. Comments received basically dismissed the need for such gauges because triggers can be set by feel. Indeed, they can but there are certain places a trigger can be set to deliver consistent, shot to shot, breaks. These gauges are needed to find those places. And again, I believe knowing exactly when to expect your trigger to release can and does improve your performance. Uneven releases lead to inconsistent results.

But getting back to the rifle, and only the rifle, I would say consistent ignition is the most important.

You say you have spent a lot of time with your rifles over the winter but you didn't mention what you did during that time. Remember the old saying "don't fix something that isn't broke."
Another would be "misdiagnoses is very common in RFBR."

I think I have fixed so many things that I should have left alone. But learning by doing is better than never learning at all.

TKH

 

[PWNolan]

I am only talking about the rifle.

Shooters are a whole other thing. Not only do shooters have different abilities but there are many ways to set up a rifle that will prevent the shooter from being able to deliver his/her best performance even if the shooter has great wind reading abilities and gun handling techniques. But that was not what I was talking about.

As simple as our actions are, there is still many parts and pieces that can prevent a rifle from shooting to its potential or able to be shot to its true potential.

It is my belief that the rifle must be tuned to get the most out of it and I'm not just talking about twisting the muzzle device.

To illustrate my point, I will invite your attention to a recent thread where I showed pics of three different gauges used to set the break point of triggers. Comments received basically dismissed the need for such gauges because triggers can be set by feel. Indeed, they can but there are certain places a trigger can be set to deliver consistent, shot to shot, breaks. These gauges are needed to find those places. And again, I believe knowing exactly when to expect your trigger to release can and does improve your performance. Uneven releases lead to inconsistent results.

But getting back to the rifle, and only the rifle, I would say consistent ignition is the most important.

You say you have spent a lot of time with your rifles over the winter but you didn't mention what you did during that time. Remember the old saying "don't fix something that isn't broke."
Another would be "misdiagnoses is very common in RFBR."

I think I have fixed so many things that I should have left alone. But learning by doing is better than never learning at all.

TKH

Thanks for the detailed response. Some had said it appeared the strike from the firing pin on my X3L seemed excessive. So I relaxed a spring and did a little polishing on the bolt internals to get it to where I want it and as consistent as I could. I also worked on the one in my 2500X

I believe you participated in the thread over on RFC where we discussed the topic quite a bit

Firing Pin Strike/Ignition Comparison

I know there is a large discussion in the benchrest rimfire world on ignition systems but I was honestly a little surprised by the difference in firing pin strikes between my 2500x and my CZ457. Both work great and function properly but the 2500x is much more accurate and consistent. Just an...

www.rimfirecentral.com

Once I had the ignition to where I wanted it I worked on the tuners. Separate from the rifles I made some improvements to my Pappas one-piece rest

Not sure I've seen the thread where you pictured the different gauges for tesing the triggers. I did see the one on BRC where some of you posted pics of the pressure/tension gauges. I bought a inexpensive one and test my triggers.

 

[Tony K Harper]

Thanks for the detailed response. Some had said it appeared the strike from the firing pin on my X3L seemed excessive. So I relaxed a spring and did a little polishing on the bolt internals to get it to where I want it and as consistent as I could. I also worked on the one in my 2500X

I believe you participated in the thread over on RFC where we discussed the topic quite a bit

Firing Pin Strike/Ignition Comparison

I know there is a large discussion in the benchrest rimfire world on ignition systems but I was honestly a little surprised by the difference in firing pin strikes between my 2500x and my CZ457. Both work great and function properly but the 2500x is much more accurate and consistent. Just an...

www.rimfirecentral.com

Once I had the ignition to where I wanted it I worked on the tuners. Separate from the rifles I made some improvements to my Pappas one-piece rest

Not sure I've seen the thread where you pictured the different gauges for tesing the triggers. I did see the one on BRC where some of you posted pics of the pressure/tension gauges. I bought a inexpensive one and test my triggers.

This is the three gauges I use to set up ignition. Probably don't need but one of them but Why kill something if you can over kill it?

TKH

 

[1Merlin]

So if I rechamber my Turbo with a Benz chamber it will shoot as well as with a (current "hot" choice of the experts) chamber. Perhaps if you compare the two leading chamber specifications there my not be a huge difference - But there is a difference.

 

[grauhanen]

So if I rechamber my Turbo with a Benz chamber it will shoot as well as with a (current "hot" choice of the experts) chamber. Perhaps if you compare the two leading chamber specifications there my not be a huge difference - But there is a difference.

If there was a difference between the two leading chambers it's likely many shooters wouldn't be able to see it on the target. Small differences can be hard to recognize and know when they are because of a different chamber, especially when shooting outdoors.

 

[Hi-NV Shooter]

So if I rechamber my Turbo with a Benz chamber it will shoot as well as with a (current "hot" choice of the experts) chamber. Perhaps if you compare the two leading chamber specifications there my not be a huge difference - But there is a difference.

Merlin,

It will only work with Rem. GB, maybe Rem target also don't clean the barrel.

Lee

 

[1911nut]

Merlin,

It will only work with Rem. GB, maybe Rem target also don't clean the barrel.

Lee

that’s just mean

 

[Hi-NV Shooter]

If there was a difference between the two leading chambers it's likely many shooters wouldn't be able to see it on the target. Small differences can be hard to recognize and know when they are because of a different chamber, especially when shooting outdoors.

I have to ask, since I don't recall any of your Rifles that you have posted pictures of having a custom aftermarket barrel.
So how can you make this statement, somewhat bold to say since you haven't shot anything other than factory chambered barrels!
it's likely many shooters wouldn't be able to see it on the target. Small differences can be hard to recognize and know when they are because of a different chamber

Lee

 

[1Merlin]

If there was a difference between the two leading chambers it's likely many shooters wouldn't be able to see it on the target. Small differences can be hard to recognize and know when they are because of a different chamber, especially when shooting outdoors.

You are definitely right .. if your shooting at tin cans.

 

[grauhanen]

I have to ask, since I don't recall any of your Rifles that you have posted pictures of having a custom aftermarket barrel.

Your recall may be an issue. You haven't seen all of them. For example, a Turbo is one of the rifles you've overlooked.

So how can you make this statement, somewhat bold to say since you haven't shot anything other than factory chambered barrels!

Lee, your question is irrelevant. It's not hard to understand that "the two leading chambers" (which is how Merlin originally put it) will not be produce results very different from each other. No one should think one very good chamber will produce very different results from another very good chamber.

But then you go on to say the following.

it's likely many shooters wouldn't be able to see it on the target. Small differences can be hard to recognize and know when they are because of a different chamber

This is exactly my point when I said "Small differences can be hard to recognize and know when they are because of a different chamber, especially when shooting outdoors."

If you took the time to read a little more carefully instead of rushing to be argumentative your post would have been unnecessary.

You are definitely right .. if your shooting at tin cans.

Do you think you can readily see the difference on target resulting from the differences between the two "leading chambers"? If the target results were so different, there wouldn't be two leading chambers, only one because it would be head and shoulders above all others. Which chamber would that be?