Case stuck in chamber, primer leaked at edge

[243winxb]

Brass is all Wolf

I would see how the weight of the brass compares . Weight 20 Wolf. If the spread is more then 3 grains, 1 out of spec may have made it into the lot? Not likely, if fired before.

Seen 1 case in a lot of 308 that produced high pressure. Was a lot heavier then the others.

The powder drop needs to be watched.

Just guessing now.

https://www.accurateshooter.com/cartridge-guides/223rem/

 

[243winxb]

Tumbling media left in the 1 case? If there is room.

 

[jelenko]

I would see how the weight of the brass compares . Weight 20 Wolf. If the spread is more then 3 grains, 1 out of spec may have made it into the lot? Not likely, if fired before.

Seen 1 case in a lot of 308 that produced high pressure. Was a lot heavier then the others.

The powder drop needs to be watched.

Just guessing now.

https://www.accurateshooter.com/cartridge-guides/223rem/

View attachment 1553904

Good idea, but
before starting load development with the Wolf, I measured H2O capacity for 20 cases. Extreme spread was around 1/2 grain.

 

[jelenko]

Tumbling media left in the 1 case? If there is room.

Hmm. The processor uses wet tumbling. But, I'll take a look in the bore to see if a pin is embedded anywhere.

 

[jelenko]

As I thought about 243winxb's comments, I'm going to measure the water capacity and the overall length of the case that had the over pressure.
I'm on the way to a match; will report back later.

 

[jds holler]

On the Nosler Site, I always liked that they list the H2O capacity of at least for THEIR brass. It helps with knowing where you stand with their powder loads vs Nosler case capacity -- verses what ever case a guy is using. jd

Seems to me that someone around here should create a spread-sheet?? - listing the case capacities of our various brass brands in the popular cartridges we use. -- someone with more ambition than me.jd

 

[searcher]

I'd say you are over pressure for that barrel. I'd doubt the 41 primer is the issue, as it would not be the cause of the pressure - as there is seldom a velocity change of more than 30 FPS between primers in the .223/.556. If anything, the leaked primer released some of the excess pressure. Had the primer not leaked - pressure would have been higher. That said, viewing all the 69 Sierra loads with various powders in the Sierra manual and Hodgdon manual, they all show max velocities in the 2,940 to 2,950 range, with TAC showing the highest velocity. Tac burns a bit faster than BLC2, though running at 2,900 and dumping straight from the hopper from the Dillon, as you suggest, could add to the problem, which could be combined with a very slight velocity increase from the 41 primer. My Dillon hoppers are not capable of keeping charges to within 2/10th of a grain consistently - even with BLC2. I'd be inclined to back that off a full grain - at least. Even then, you will be running warm. I know that I have a few barrels that are incapable of running a 69 with Varget at Sierra's recommended accuracy load of 25.3 grains of Varget. In one of my barrels, I end up with what you just did, though Sierra says velocity "should" be around 2,750, my barrel couldn't take it. I was using Remington 7 1/2 and Federal A/R Match primers - not the 41's.

 

[jelenko]

I'd say you are over pressure for that barrel. I'd doubt the 41 primer is the issue, as it would not be the cause of the pressure - as there is seldom a velocity change of more than 30 FPS between primers in the .223/.556. If anything, the leaked primer released some of the excess pressure. Had the primer not leaked - pressure would have been higher. That said, viewing all the 69 Sierra loads with various powders in the Sierra manual and Hodgdon manual, they all show max velocities in the 2,940 to 2,950 range, with TAC showing the highest velocity. Tac burns a bit faster than BLC2, though running at 2,900 and dumping straight from the hopper from the Dillon, as you suggest, could add to the problem, which could be combined with a very slight velocity increase from the 41 primer. My Dillon hoppers are not capable of keeping charges to within 2/10th of a grain consistently - even with BLC2. I'd be inclined to back that off a full grain - at least. Even then, you will be running warm. I know that I have a few barrels that are incapable of running a 69 with Varget at Sierra's recommended accuracy load of 25.3 grains of Varget. In one of my barrels, I end up with what you just did, though Sierra says velocity "should" be around 2,750, my barrel couldn't take it. I was using Remington 7 1/2 and Federal A/R Match primers - not the 41's.

The 26 gr of BLC2 is running just around 2900 - so not as hot as the manuals indicate. The max Hodgdon load for 69 gr and BLC2 is 26.5 with a 50K psi.
All of the other fired cases [hundreds] have nice rounded primers and no hint of an ejector mark.

I actually started out load dev at 26.9 gr at 2.255 - primers looked fine [i.e., not flat] and still no hint of an ejector mark. I went to 26 and increased the COAL so the bullet didn't sit into the powder.

 

[jelenko]

So, measured water capacity - right in the middle of the distribution from before.
Case length 1.752.

At this point, it seems that there must have been a lot more powder in the case than 26 gr. But, you can't get much more and be able to seat a bullet.

 

[searcher]

So, measured water capacity - right in the middle of the distribution from before.
Case length 1.752.

At this point, it seems that there must have been a lot more powder in the case than 26 gr. But, you can't get much more and be able to seat a bullet.

I used to use a varmint load for years in cold weather (50 v-Max with Reloader 7 powder) and it wasn't till I shot that same load in hot weather that I started blowing/piercing primers. That showed me how close to the "top" I was with that load, though it never showed any signs of being remotely hot till shot in hot weather. I figured the air temperature difference amounted to roughly a 1/2 grain difference in powder. Those .223's can go from being fine to pretty hot quickly with some powders. It is hard to say what caused your one case to blow as it did - most likely, as you guess - a slight difference in powder and, possibly - a case with a larger flash hole, a primer with a tad more priming compound, etc. Sometimes only one little difference alone won't show anything - but a cumulation of small things can push it over the edge. Even shooting in 20-degree warmer weather, combined with a few tenths of extra powder can do it. That your other many cases didn't show anything doesn't mean the load wasn't close to the edge. The manuals are just rough references. I shot thousands of rounds with that Rel 7 before doing so on that hot day - and not a one showed any signs of pressure. All it took was a 45-50-degree temperature change to go crazy hot on me. And I hand weigh all charges, use the same batch of bullets, primers and powder and same brass - so I know it was most likely just the heat alone.

 

[jelenko]

I used to use a varmint load for years in cold weather (50 v-Max with Reloader 7 powder) and it wasn't till I shot that same load in hot weather that I started blowing/piercing primers. That showed me how close to the "top" I was with that load, though it never showed any signs of being remotely hot till shot in hot weather. I figured the air temperature difference amounted to roughly a 1/2 grain difference in powder. Those .223's can go from being fine to pretty hot quickly with some powders. It is hard to say what caused your one case to blow as it did - most likely, as you guess - a slight difference in powder and, possibly - a case with a larger flash hole, a primer with a tad more priming compound, etc. Sometimes only one little difference alone won't show anything - but a cumulation of small things can push it over the edge. Even shooting in 20-degree warmer weather, combined with a few tenths of extra powder can do it. That your other many cases didn't show anything doesn't mean the load wasn't close to the edge. The manuals are just rough references. I shot thousands of rounds with that Rel 7 before doing so on that hot day - and not a one showed any signs of pressure. All it took was a 45-50-degree temperature change to go crazy hot on me. And I hand weigh all charges, use the same batch of bullets, primers and powder and same brass - so I know it was most likely just the heat alone.

Thanks for taking the time to share!

 

[tommeboy]

Almost all of the European brass has less case capacity. All i find is thrown into the scrap bucket.

 

[B23]

Not sure what the OP got but I believe most get around 30.5-ish gr. H2O for case capacity in 223 Wolf brass.

 

[searcher]

Almost all of the European brass has less case capacity. All i find is thrown into the scrap bucket.

I tend to agree with the case capacity. Back when they came out with the 6.5 Grendel, there was very little brass available, but Wolff had loaded ammo for it - which I bought to get some shooting in with my new rig. It was low on the case capacity, a bit soft, but I did more loadings on the brass than I would have thought.

 

[jelenko]

Not sure what the OP got but I believe most get around 30.5-ish gr. H2O for case capacity in 223 Wolf brass.

My measurements came out at 30.7 average.
But, getting an absolutely flat 'meniscus' seems very subjective.

 

[searcher]

My measurements came out at 30.7 average.
But, getting an absolutely flat 'meniscus' seems very subjective.

When I used Wolff brass - it was over ten years ago and I did so in only a few calibers - and not .223/.556. That H2O method you mention tells it like it is for a particular batch of brass.

 

[jelenko]

Just an update.
Now two weeks later, I just had two more primers leak at the edge. Both have a nice round hole at the edge.
The last two with a completely different load and neither case was stuck in the chamber.
This load was 24.8 gr of Tac with a 60 gr TMK loaded at 2.250.

I've gone through ~ 500 rounds total since the first failure - mostly rounds with 24.8 gr of SWM with Hornady H68's at 2.250, some of the load earlier in this thread [26.0 BLC2 with Nos 69], and some with yesterday's load of 24.8 Tac with 60 TMK.

Winchester has sent me a box to return the unused primers from the lot. The lot number is WLC22L002. The lady from Winchester said these were made more than 10 years ago but I bought them just over a year ago. With the SR shortage, that does raise the question of what the history is of these primers.

 

[243winxb]

Win 41

https://www.ar15.com/forums/Armory/...chester-41-primers-on-the-shelves-/42-551137/

Dont know how i missed Winchester primer. I sent back 1862 primers, WSPM. In 10-17-22. The check came on 3--7-23 .

Win/Olin sent check for $155 for the 1862 primers I returned. $ .084 each.

Nothing for Hasmat, shipping or 6% sales tax I will have to pay again, to replace WSPM.

I was told, new primers would be delivered to me & I wanted new primers. Didnt happen.

 

[jelenko]

Interesting. The failure rate I'm seeing so far is ~ 3 in 1000.

My next concern is the other carton of 5,000. It is a different lot. Before I prime a bunch of cases, I'm going to test a hundred at a time.
Ah, and, I'm being sure to use the same bolt even in different uppers. No sense in ruining more than one bolt.

 

[Gabe22BR]

And you’re sure it’s the primer…???

I’ve failed to see where a single piece of other manufacture brass was tested with the primers…. as the primer pocket could be junk.

“I sent the brass out to get processed ” -

-did they swag they over swag the pocket ? Your photo looks like it,,

Lots of simple reasons & questions come to mind…