Redding Comp shell holder vs...

[TommyD11730]

So I havea set of comp shell holders on the way. Currently I use a hornady shell holder and forester die.

I know it's too much to ask the new +2 shell holder to be GTG vs the Hornady. I don't expect there to be a industry standard on shell holder height. So my question is how would I measure my current "standard" holders height vs the custom?

Trying to avoid any surprises.

Thanks!

 

[rijndael]

So my question is how would I measure my current "standard" holders height vs the custom?

You want the depth from the top of the shell holder to the face that touches the bottom of the brass. See below image, at the bottom is a diagram.

It's pretty easy to mess this up without a depth micrometer because holding the vernier caliper perpendicular to the shell holder face isn't easy.

 

[RegionRat]

Most times this height is "supposed to be" 0.125".

As you already mentioned, too many times this height is cut sloppy and it is best to keep close track of any discrepancies in your standard shell holders. The measurement of the shellholder isn't difficult, give it a try.

With the new set of incremental ones, you will walk your way down till your brass chambers, then measure the results, and confirm with a few pieces. Sometimes the optimal one isn't the one you expect.

By the way, I have ordered many sets of these in my lifetime and on a few occasions, one or two of the steps were cut wrong. So you should inspect those tools when they arrive. They are very good about sending you corrected ones if you contact them.

As often as not, subtleties in the differences of the diameters cause the math on the lengths to be funny so don't be surprised if it isn't the one you expect. If you are inspecting the brass closely, and using your chamber as the final judge, you will do fine.

 

[Conaso]

I found Hornady shellholders cut uneven and at different depths. I now use only RCBS or Redding shellholders. To make a long story - short, I relegated all my Hornady shellholders to depriming on an old Hornady press. And stay away from Hornady handprimer - the reviews are accurate and on mine (dumped in a closet) only can use Hornady shellholders.

 

[Dimner]

Thanks for reminding about this. I can't remember who made the factory spec shell holder im using with my #1 comp shelholder set. However most of the time it doesn't matter since 8 setup the die with a +0.006 and possibly a skips shim if the need arises. Then I have the two increments up and two down from the +0.006 to finish the setup. 3 increments down if I use my unknown mfg factory spec shell holder.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Yep, like RR said, there kinda is an industry standard of .125 but you do see some variance between them. The biggest thing is that a lot of people misunderstand how the Redding Comp holders work and what they can and can't do.

The "zero" holder is the equivalent of a standard shell holder. A +.002 REDUCES how much bump it can give you! Read that again because that's where people screw up. They get thicker, not thinner...so they do NOT help give you more bump than a standard shell holder. Just the opposite! Still a good tool, just misunderstood.

I rarely chamber a bbl to "zero" headspace anymore because of this. Some dies and shell holders wont go together far enough to bump the shoulders at all if chambered to zero or absolute min dimension. Just another example of where we often try to be too perfect when we're truly better off being a couple of thou or so deeper than min spec.

As @DaveTooley would say..."don't do things that make the phone ring" Lol! Setting to absolute min headspace is a very good example of just that. It requires removing material either from the top of the shell holder or the bottom of the die to correct. I prefer bottom of the die, fwiw but both work. But the real answer...the one that keeps you from calling me to tell me you can't bump your shoulders at all, is to chamber about .002- .003 deeper than minimum. And that will limit or keep you from bumping too far TOO!!...within reason, of course.

 

[TommyD11730]

Hey guys, thanks 1 and all for your comments. You right, I had it in my head backwards how I thought they would work.

Anyways they arrived today. I could feel running my rock checker that the Redding shell holders required less force when caming over the press. So it came as no suprise after measuring some brass I had to adjust my die downward some.

It's nice now to be able to make a fairly fine adjustment now by just swapping the shell holders.

So in the end I'm happy. Thanks guys!

 

[Alex Wheeler]

The Redding comp shell holders also allow you to preload your press by setting up for a hard cam over. Run the press and adjust the die so you have a good bit of cam over, then pick the shell holder that gives you the bump you want. This method produces very consistent bump numbers even on springy presses.

 

[Dimner]

The Redding comp shell holders also allow you to preload your press by setting up for a hard cam over. Run the press and adjust the die so you have a good bit of cam over, then pick the shell holder that gives you the bump you want. This method produces very consistent bump numbers even on springy presses.

would you mind explaining the cam over concept a little more? Or maybe a link that explains it (better than what I found in a google search)?

I hear about cam over a bunch. I have a rockchucker, which I believe has cam over, and I'm clueless how to set it up to use cam over as well as clueless as to when to cam over and when not to.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Run the ram all the way up, screw the die down until it touches the shell holder, lower the ram and screw the die down about an 1/8 turn and lock it down you will have hard cam over. It provides a very positive stop and for the most part takes press flex out of the picture.

 

[Dimner]

Run the ram all the way up, screw the die down until it touches the shell holder, lower the ram and screw the die down about an 1/8 turn and lock it down you will have hard cam over. It provides a very positive stop and for the most part takes press flex out of the picture.

Just for a sanity check, if I'm understanding this correctly, I basically do the setup you describe above, with a standard shell holder, and then use the redding comp shell holders at what ever value to reduce the bump of the shoulder? Thus maintain the hard cam over and getting the bump value I am looking to achieve?

 

[6.5 forever]

I would only use the same shellholder for everything. No sense of making it hard. But that's just me.

 

[fatelvis]

It's pretty easy to mess this up without a depth micrometer because holding the vernier caliper perpendicular to the shell holder face isn't easy.

The depth gauge portion of a set of calipers is at the opposite end as the measuring jaws. It will give you an accurate reading to the 1000th of an inch, or better.

 

[rijndael]

The depth gauge portion of a set of calipers is at the opposite end as the measuring jaws. It will give you an accurate reading to the 1000th of an inch, or better.

I'm aware of where it is and how it's used.

You have to get the caliper perpendicular to the piece you're measuring, if you don't it'll be skewed and it's easy to be more than a few thousandths off.

I would also note that with cheap calipers, the measuring piece isn't flush with the end of the caliper, so you have to be sure to zero it against something flat.

 

[RegionRat]

Just for a sanity check, if I'm understanding this correctly, I basically do the setup you describe above, with a standard shell holder, and then use the redding comp shell holders at what ever value to reduce the bump of the shoulder? Thus maintain the hard cam over and getting the bump value I am looking to achieve?

Depending on the condition of your press, and how much force it takes to size your brass.... You may need to double check that the ram actually closes the shell holder on the bottom of the die and then slightly toggles over.

I have seen beginners set out by being shy about the amount they screw down the die beyond the initial touch point plus the extra, only to find out that the work load prevents the shell holder from making contact.

To use Cam Over, your press linkages will actually "toggle over center" slightly. That means the set up exceeds the amount to close on the work piece first, and then toggles over.

You can get the toggle over feel with the shell holder and die adjustment without putting any brass in to work the press, but then watch to make sure that is enough toggle over for when their is work being done.

By the same warning, there is no need to over do it. As soon as you get the press to cam over, you should experiment with the die setting just to get a feel for too little and too much.

This is all much easier to teach in person than it is to describe in words or even videos, but this will have to do for now. Go try it a little and see if you still have questions.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

Just for a sanity check, if I'm understanding this correctly, I basically do the setup you describe above, with a standard shell holder, and then use the redding comp shell holders at what ever value to reduce the bump of the shoulder? Thus maintain the hard cam over and getting the bump value I am looking to achieve?

I would use your reddings. The last paragraph in the redding instructions posted above describe how to set this up. The only thing Im talking about its turning the die down just a little more than touching.

 

[243winxb]

Shell holder just touching bottom of fl die, compared to cam over, may be as much as .002" different in shoulder set back when sizing.

Shell holders do wear.
The case head now sits lower in the shell holder from loading many 243 type cartridges. The deck height has gotten longer to .126" on the left .

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

The Redding Comp shell holders are a good but often misunderstood tool is all. Like wheeler said, they can be used to optimize bump with cam over, etc. Might or might not take a little work to get there or be planned for when chambering is another approach.

 

[Kracken McGraw]

Just for a sanity check, if I'm understanding this correctly, I basically do the setup you describe above, with a standard shell holder, and then use the redding comp shell holders at what ever value to reduce the bump of the shoulder? Thus maintain the hard cam over and getting the bump value I am looking to achieve?

I set the additional 1/8 of a turn cam over on the +10 shell holder, then start using the lower numbered shell holders to get to the bump measurement your after. Your regular shell holder will be last in the sequence to give the most bump, but you shouldn’t ever have to go that far.

 

[K22]

I have friends that have them and use them quite successfully. Rare, but a few were not machined to the correct size so I would check them to make sure.

I chose a different and more economical option since I didn't want to spend the money to acquire the two sets that I would need for the cases that I size. Instead, I opted for Skip Shims which can be used with any caliber dies. They simply insert under the lock ring.

They have work exceedingly well for me and accomplish the same result. I have not had to change to lock ring of my F/L dies since I set them up to use the Shims.