How to chart load development results

[slowbalt]

Just came back from my first ever load development with some (hopefully useful) data. My problem is organizing it in a format that allows me to pinpoint possible nodes. Any tool recommendations? I am trying to massage the numbers in excel, but am having a hard time wrapping my head around it.

24.5gr

24.7gr

24.9gr

25.1gr

25.3gr

25.5gr

25.7gr

25.9gr

26.1gr

26.3gr

26.5gr

26.7gr

26.9gr

27.1gr

27.3gr

27.5gr

27.7gr

FPS1

2380.4​

2399.9​

2402.6​

2438.6​

2445.3​

2471.9​

2491.2​

2497.2​

2518.2​

2528.6​

2541.3​

2567.8​

2576.5​

2603.7​

2603.7​

2626.3​

2638.2​

FPS2

2372.0​

2390.0​

2409.5​

2433.4​

2446.0​

2465.1​

2495.8​

2494.3​

2527.9​

2531.2​

2542.2​

2555.1​

2556.9​

2586.4​

2614.5​

2629.4​

2646.1​

FPS3

2370.6​

2399.6​

2412.3​

2440.8​

2448.2​

2465.4​

2478.7​

2495.1​

2536.7​

2528.4​

2550.9​

2562.4​

2595.9​

2596.2​

2614.9​

2624.0​

2636.0​

 

[Benchrest Braxton]

Just came back from my first ever load development with some (hopefully useful) data. My problem is organizing it in a format that allows me to pinpoint possible nodes. Any tool recommendations? I am trying to massage the numbers in excel, but am having a hard time wrapping my head around it.

24.5gr

24.7gr

24.9gr

25.1gr

25.3gr

25.5gr

25.7gr

25.9gr

26.1gr

26.3gr

26.5gr

26.7gr

26.9gr

27.1gr

27.3gr

27.5gr

27.7gr

FPS1

2380.4​

2399.9​

2402.6​

2438.6​

2445.3​

2471.9​

2491.2​

2497.2​

2518.2​

2528.6​

2541.3​

2567.8​

2576.5​

2603.7​

2603.7​

2626.3​

2638.2​

FPS2

2372.0​

2390.0​

2409.5​

2433.4​

2446.0​

2465.1​

2495.8​

2494.3​

2527.9​

2531.2​

2542.2​

2555.1​

2556.9​

2586.4​

2614.5​

2629.4​

2646.1​

FPS3

2370.6​

2399.6​

2412.3​

2440.8​

2448.2​

2465.4​

2478.7​

2495.1​

2536.7​

2528.4​

2550.9​

2562.4​

2595.9​

2596.2​

2614.9​

2624.0​

2636.0​

download this, its what @F Class John uses in his videos

ChronoPlotter

ChronoPlotter Easily create clean, customizable charts and graphs of your load development sessions with little to no manual data entry. ChronoPlotter is free and open source, works on Windows and MacOS, and supports most chronographs and e-targets. Download Quick Start Guide Read our research...

chronoplotter.com

 

[Just Say Moe]

I was going to say plot them in a spreadsheet but the app mentioned above looks like the easy way.

 

[jelenko]

Did you record group sizes?

 

[RegionRat]

BTW, those are just velocity numbers. That isn't how accuracy or precision load development is done, no matter how you organize that data.

Unless you meant finding if there is a place where the variation in velocity is the quietest, there isn't going to be a "node". To find the place in velocity where there might be less SD/ES would take a magnitude more data. As a result, you would still find a possible node sooner by going to distance and focusing on the vertical shotfall.

This is why there are other techniques for finding optimum tune, none of which center on looking at those kinds of velocity numbers in detail.

Have a look at the other methods. The ones that focus on the target will be far more productive than the ones that focus only on chronograph values. Good Luck. YMMV

 

[Benchrest Braxton]

BTW, those are just velocity numbers. That isn't how accuracy or precision load development is done, no matter how you organize that data.

Unless you meant finding if there is a place where the variation in velocity is the quietest, there isn't going to be a "node". To find the place in velocity where there might be less SD/ES would take a magnitude more data. As a result, you would still find a possible node sooner by going to distance and focusing on the vertical shotfall.

This is why there are other techniques for finding optimum tune, none of which center on looking at those kinds of velocity numbers in detail.

Have a look at the other methods. The ones that focus on the target will be far more productive than the ones that focus only on chronograph values. Good Luck. YMMV

this ^^^^

 

[slowbalt]

Did you record group sizes?

I did, but had rear bag issues so I am not trusting it.

 

[Straightshooter1]

download this, its what @F Class John uses in his videos

ChronoPlotter

ChronoPlotter Easily create clean, customizable charts and graphs of your load development sessions with little to no manual data entry. ChronoPlotter is free and open source, works on Windows and MacOS, and supports most chronographs and e-targets. Download Quick Start Guide Read our research...

chronoplotter.com

Like RegionRat said, that velocity data isn't going help with developing an accuracy load. What would work much better is if for each of those loads you had, each of the groups lined up along a horizontal line that they can be interpreted for their relative locations along with the size and shape of the groups. You've got to go by what's on target, not velocity.

The only time I do a velocity ladder like this is to find where the maximum load is to decide where I might want to start the load development.

 

[slowbalt]

BTW, those are just velocity numbers. That isn't how accuracy or precision load development is done, no matter how you organize that data.

Unless you meant finding if there is a place where the variation in velocity is the quietest, there isn't going to be a "node". To find the place in velocity where there might be less SD/ES would take a magnitude more data. As a result, you would still find a possible node sooner by going to distance and focusing on the vertical shotfall.

This is why there are other techniques for finding optimum tune, none of which center on looking at those kinds of velocity numbers in detail.

Have a look at the other methods. The ones that focus on the target will be far more productive than the ones that focus only on chronograph values. Good Luck. YMMV

The way I was taught was:

1- Run velocity test to find the "nodes" (word that was used, not sure if that is the correct word or not). "Nodes" being flat spots in velocity increases. That is your powder charge.

2- Run seating depth test to get the best precision.

3- Enjoy.

Is that not a somewhat productive way to test? I am quite new to this, and the "mentor" who detailed this technique has excellent results, so I took it at face value.

 

[Straightshooter1]

The way I was taught was:

1- Run velocity test to find the "nodes" (word that was used, not sure if that is the correct word or not). "Nodes" being flat spots in velocity increases. That is your powder charge.

2- Run seating depth test to get the best precision.

3- Enjoy.

Is that not a somewhat productive way to test? I am quite new to this, and the "mentor" who detailed this technique has excellent results, so I took it at face value.

If you were to run the test exactly as before, it'd be very VERY likely you'd find a different flat spot. Run the test 4 or 5 times and put them together and you'll wind in with no flat spots, but a linear line.

 

[JFrank]

Nothing better than overcomplicated load development thread. Well maybe a shoulder bump or annealing thread. lol

 

[Jager]

The way I was taught was:

1- Run velocity test to find the "nodes" (word that was used, not sure if that is the correct word or not). "Nodes" being flat spots in velocity increases. That is your powder charge.

2- Run seating depth test to get the best precision.

3- Enjoy.

Is that not a somewhat productive way to test? I am quite new to this, and the "mentor" who detailed this technique has excellent results, so I took it at face value.

No. As the fellows above have noted, just collecting chronograph data with the expectation that those numbers tell you where your rifle is most accurate is simply a waste of time, components, and barrel life.

Load development starts and ends with results on paper, downrange. Chrono information can be immensely helpful in a number of different ways, but finding a tune for your rifle is not among them.

 

[RegionRat]

The way I was taught was:

1- Run velocity test to find the "nodes" (word that was used, not sure if that is the correct word or not). "Nodes" being flat spots in velocity increases. That is your powder charge.

2- Run seating depth test to get the best precision.

3- Enjoy.

Is that not a somewhat productive way to test? I am quite new to this, and the "mentor" who detailed this technique has excellent results, so I took it at face value.

I am very sorry that so many folks on the internet and YouTube propagated this "method". Many of them were (are) talented shooters, but I can say none of them worked in weapons or ballistics.

It may have been called The Satterlee 10 Shot Method or some such, but it was news to me that this was even a thing. By the time folks jumped on here and asked about it, Satterlee was already going on the record with retractions, but those didn't get the attention of the ones that pushed that story in the first place.

Those "velocity flat spots" evaporate as soon as you go test them enough. With the quality of the hardware and components they were using, their results were good but completely arbitrary as a result.

If your test results are giving you or your mentor "excellent results", then by all means go right ahead.

Or, go do some more research and you will discover what should be well known by now. Hope that helps. Good Luck.

 

[Webster]

Just came back from my first ever load development with some (hopefully useful) data. My problem is organizing it in a format that allows me to pinpoint possible nodes. Any tool recommendations? I am trying to massage the numbers in excel, but am having a hard time wrapping my head around it.

24.5gr

24.7gr

24.9gr

25.1gr

25.3gr

25.5gr

25.7gr

25.9gr

26.1gr

26.3gr

26.5gr

26.7gr

26.9gr

27.1gr

27.3gr

27.5gr

27.7gr

FPS1

2380.4​

2399.9​

2402.6​

2438.6​

2445.3​

2471.9​

2491.2​

2497.2​

2518.2​

2528.6​

2541.3​

2567.8​

2576.5​

2603.7​

2603.7​

2626.3​

2638.2​

FPS2

2372.0​

2390.0​

2409.5​

2433.4​

2446.0​

2465.1​

2495.8​

2494.3​

2527.9​

2531.2​

2542.2​

2555.1​

2556.9​

2586.4​

2614.5​

2629.4​

2646.1​

FPS3

2370.6​

2399.6​

2412.3​

2440.8​

2448.2​

2465.4​

2478.7​

2495.1​

2536.7​

2528.4​

2550.9​

2562.4​

2595.9​

2596.2​

2614.9​

2624.0​

2636.0​

How about nodes by group size. Groups are all that matters.

 

[Benchrest Braxton]

Nothing better than overcomplicated load development thread. Well maybe a shoulder bump or annealing thread. lol

which hole are we diving down next frank? lol

 

[Benchrest Braxton]

Like RegionRat said, that velocity data isn't going help with developing an accuracy load. What would work much better is if for each of those loads you had, each of the groups lined up along a horizontal line that they can be interpreted for their relative locations along with the size and shape of the groups. You've got to go by what's on target, not velocity.

The only time I do a velocity ladder like this is to find where the maximum load is to decide where I might want to start the load development.

i'm just giving the man what he wanted, but i agree 100%

 

[Webster]

Just came back from my first ever load development with some (hopefully useful) data. My problem is organizing it in a format that allows me to pinpoint possible nodes. Any tool recommendations? I am trying to massage the numbers in excel, but am having a hard time wrapping my head around it.

24.5gr

24.7gr

24.9gr

25.1gr

25.3gr

25.5gr

25.7gr

25.9gr

26.1gr

26.3gr

26.5gr

26.7gr

26.9gr

27.1gr

27.3gr

27.5gr

27.7gr

FPS1

2380.4​

2399.9​

2402.6​

2438.6​

2445.3​

2471.9​

2491.2​

2497.2​

2518.2​

2528.6​

2541.3​

2567.8​

2576.5​

2603.7​

2603.7​

2626.3​

2638.2​

FPS2

2372.0​

2390.0​

2409.5​

2433.4​

2446.0​

2465.1​

2495.8​

2494.3​

2527.9​

2531.2​

2542.2​

2555.1​

2556.9​

2586.4​

2614.5​

2629.4​

2646.1​

FPS3

2370.6​

2399.6​

2412.3​

2440.8​

2448.2​

2465.4​

2478.7​

2495.1​

2536.7​

2528.4​

2550.9​

2562.4​

2595.9​

2596.2​

2614.9​

2624.0​

2636.0​

There are no FPS nodes. It's just plotting a very small amount of data. Ignoring what the ES would be if you shot 10 or 20 shots at each load.

 

[Straightshooter1]

Just came back from my first ever load development with some (hopefully useful) data. My problem is organizing it in a format that allows me to pinpoint possible nodes. Any tool recommendations? I am trying to massage the numbers in excel, but am having a hard time wrapping my head around it.

24.5gr

24.7gr

24.9gr

25.1gr

25.3gr

25.5gr

25.7gr

25.9gr

26.1gr

26.3gr

26.5gr

26.7gr

26.9gr

27.1gr

27.3gr

27.5gr

27.7gr

FPS1

2380.4​

2399.9​

2402.6​

2438.6​

2445.3​

2471.9​

2491.2​

2497.2​

2518.2​

2528.6​

2541.3​

2567.8​

2576.5​

2603.7​

2603.7​

2626.3​

2638.2​

FPS2

2372.0​

2390.0​

2409.5​

2433.4​

2446.0​

2465.1​

2495.8​

2494.3​

2527.9​

2531.2​

2542.2​

2555.1​

2556.9​

2586.4​

2614.5​

2629.4​

2646.1​

FPS3

2370.6​

2399.6​

2412.3​

2440.8​

2448.2​

2465.4​

2478.7​

2495.1​

2536.7​

2528.4​

2550.9​

2562.4​

2595.9​

2596.2​

2614.9​

2624.0​

2636.0​

The only way I know to get these numbers into an Excel graph is to manually type in the numbers since copy and paste just doesn't work. When that's done, then it's simple to graph in Excel by selecting the range of numbers and then selecting the graph you want. Your numbers looks like this:


And if you take an average of each 3 shots, it looks like this:

 

[RegionRat]

Just came back from my first ever load development with some (hopefully useful) data. My problem is organizing it in a format that allows me to pinpoint possible nodes. Any tool recommendations? I am trying to massage the numbers in excel, but am having a hard time wrapping my head around it.

24.5gr

24.7gr

24.9gr

25.1gr

25.3gr

25.5gr

25.7gr

25.9gr

26.1gr

26.3gr

26.5gr

26.7gr

26.9gr

27.1gr

27.3gr

27.5gr

27.7gr

FPS1

2380.4​

2399.9​

2402.6​

2438.6​

2445.3​

2471.9​

2491.2​

2497.2​

2518.2​

2528.6​

2541.3​

2567.8​

2576.5​

2603.7​

2603.7​

2626.3​

2638.2​

FPS2

2372.0​

2390.0​

2409.5​

2433.4​

2446.0​

2465.1​

2495.8​

2494.3​

2527.9​

2531.2​

2542.2​

2555.1​

2556.9​

2586.4​

2614.5​

2629.4​

2646.1​

FPS3

2370.6​

2399.6​

2412.3​

2440.8​

2448.2​

2465.4​

2478.7​

2495.1​

2536.7​

2528.4​

2550.9​

2562.4​

2595.9​

2596.2​

2614.9​

2624.0​

2636.0​

ETA: I hit the post button without seeing the plots that @Straightshooter1 posted above. The data has to be import formatted from ASCI characters into numerical, then it can be plotted. If you just import into Excel, it comes in without numerical values and looks like zeros.

 

[Benchrest Braxton]

View attachment 1547800

ETA: I hit the post button without seeing the plots that @Straightshooter1 posted above. The data has to be import formatted from ASCI characters into numerical, then it can be plotted. If you just import into Excel, it comes in without numerical values and looks like zeros.

The only way I know to get these numbers into an Excel graph is to manually type in the numbers since copy and paste just doesn't work. When that's done, then it's simple to graph in Excel by selecting the range of numbers and then selecting the graph you want. Your numbers looks like this:
View attachment 1547798

And if you take an average of each 3 shots, it looks like this:

View attachment 1547799

thank you for showing this alternative guys, at some point i need to figure out how to visualize some data on these tests i want to do and this looks like a great option!