Which bullet would you choose?

[Tangent]

Rifle: Tikka Tac A1 20" moderated
Brass: Lapua Palma
Primer: Federal 205M
Powders: N140 or N550
Distance: 500m

Would you choose the 155gr Lapua Scenar-L or the 178gr ELD-M?

The components are what I have on hand. I can't see much in it when it comes to wind drift when you run the numbers. The objective was to mitigate the affect of the wind as much as possible as the range is quite difficult to read. I'm leaning towards the 155gr being fast and for the reduced recoil.

 

[dk17hmr]

Which one shoots better?

 

[Tangent]

Which one shoots better?

At 100m not much in it. The 155gr does shoot very small groups, ragged hole, until you hit about a dozen rounds then the group starts to open up. Twist rate is 11.25

 

[Ranger188]

What are you going to use it for? (hunting, target)
How far are you going to be shooting at? (100m or 500m)

 

[Tangent]

What are you going to use it for? (hunting, target)
How far are you going to be shooting at? (100m or 500m)

300-500m range target shooting, casual/club competition shoots.

 

[Rob01]

I’d shoot the 178 ELD-Ms due to their better BC as with a 20” barrel you won’t get a ton of velocity so might as well have the best BC.

 

[Tangent]

I’d shoot the 178 ELD-Ms due to their better BC as with a 20” barrel you won’t get a ton of velocity so might as well have the best BC.

I wondered about that but BC is linked to velocity and 2400fps sounded pretty slow? When I ran the figures I found a 0.2" advantage to the 178gr with a 10mph crosswind. Is there a real world difference that the ballistic software doesn't show?

 

[Rob01]

2400 would be very slow from a 20”. My 20” shoots the 178s at 2700fps pushed by Varget.

 

[Tangent]

2400 would be very slow from a 20”. My 20” shoots the 178s at 2700fps pushed by Varget.

That sounds fast. I'm at near enough sea level. Looking at the data for N140 in a 24" barrel at max load is 2566fps - Vihtavouri's data. No chance of finding Varget in these parts any more.

 

[STOMP442]

The 155s are pretty impressive out of a .308. Unless you can shoot the .2" difference I would go for the better velocity and lower recoil the 155s offer and especially if they shoot better overall.

 

[Idaho-Lefty]

I'd stick with, the LIGHTER 155 gr. Bullet and any of, N- Series Powders, that, shoots IT,.. Accurately !
The LESS Recoil, the easier for YOU to, Shoot,.. BEST !
Vhit, N-series are, the "Cooler" Powders ( Easier on, the Chambers, Throat ! )

 

[Tangent]

I'd stick with, the LIGHTER 155 gr. Bullet and any of, N- Series Powders, that, shoots IT,.. Accurately !
The LESS Recoil, the easier to, Shoot,.. BEST !
Vhit, N-series are, the "Cooler" Powders ( Easier on, the Chambers, Throat ! )

The N140 load is very accurate. Maybe I'm just being too conservative with the loads. I am loading long, the throat on this Tikka seems very long! Probably losing velocity due to that.

 

[Idaho-Lefty]

I Do the SAME "Thing" with, My Braked, Tikka, in 6.5 Creedmoor, using the 130 grain, ELD-M's at over, 2,800 FPS.
LOW Recoil and,.. Very, accurate ( Sub, 1/2 MOA ) with about, .070 Bullet "Jump".
Yes, the Tikka's do HAVE,.. Long Throats ! BUT, they "Digest" Bullets that, LIKE to "Jump",.. Well !

 

[Tangent]

I Do the SAME "Thing" with, My Braked, Tikka, in 6.5 Creedmoor, using the 130 grain, ELD-M's at over, 2,800 FPS.
LOW Recoil and,.. Very, accurate ( Sub, 1/2 MOA ) with about, .070 Bullet "Jump".
Yes, the Tikka's do HAVE,.. Long Throats ! BUT, they "Digest" Bullets that, LIKE to "Jump",.. Well !

Sounds like I just need to just try and get a bit more velocity out of the Scenars. Eventually I'm planning a rebarrel to something else, maybe 25CM.

 

[Rob01]

That sounds fast. I'm at near enough sea level. Looking at the data for N140 in a 24" barrel at max load is 2566fps - Vihtavouri's data. No chance of finding Varget in these parts any more.

Maybe try N150? But those are very slow speeds for a 178 especially in a 24” barrel.

I would try some more N140 also as you mention if they are that slow. Might just be conservative in their data.

Never a fan of 155 but if they work for you then try them but if you can get the 178 going a more normal speed check that wind again.

 

[Jeff Porter]

VV load data is about the most lawyer proof data in the internet. Work up their max load and beyond while looking for pressure signs on the case and bolt lift feel. Then see what the rifle and the target will tell you.

FWIW - I am pushing 3000 fps with the 155.5 Berger and my 175 SMK load is at 2700. The 155's are slightly better in the wind at those speeds. Less than 1/2 moa at 600. A 185 Berger will beat both of those in the wind at 2650 fps.

The reality is someone shooting a 6mm 105 Hybrid at 2980 fps in a Dasher or BRA is batter than any of these in wind... .

It comes down to what you can hold and how well you are reading the wind.

 

[Tangent]

VV load data is about the most lawyer proof data in the internet. Work up their max load and beyond while looking for pressure signs on the case and bolt lift feel. Then see what the rifle and the target will tell you.

FWIW - I am pushing 3000 fps with the 155.5 Berger and my 175 SMK load is at 2700. The 155's are slightly better in the wind at those speeds. Less than 1/2 moa at 600. A 185 Berger will beat both of those in the wind at 2650 fps.

The reality is someone shooting a 6mm 105 Hybrid at 2980 fps in a Dasher or BRA is batter than any of these in wind... .

It comes down to what you can hold and how well you are reading the wind.

I agree with the 6BR, much better in the wind. I'm definitely handicapped Vs some of the other people I shoot with. Until I can rebarrel to something more competitive I think the faster 155's will be the best I can do for now. It's all a learning curve and I've picked up a lot of very useful information from this forum. Probably saved me 10 years of trial and error!

 

[Rob01]

VV load data is about the most lawyer proof data in the internet. Work up their max load and beyond while looking for pressure signs on the case and bolt lift feel. Then see what the rifle and the target will tell you.

FWIW - I am pushing 3000 fps with the 155.5 Berger and my 175 SMK load is at 2700. The 155's are slightly better in the wind at those speeds. Less than 1/2 moa at 600. A 185 Berger will beat both of those in the wind at 2650 fps.

The reality is someone shooting a 6mm 105 Hybrid at 2980 fps in a Dasher or BRA is batter than any of these in wind... .

It comes down to what you can hold and how well you are reading the wind.

With a 20” barrel you are getting 3000fps?

And the 178 ELD has a much higher BC than the 175 SMK. The 178 bc is close to the 185.

 

[JFrank]

The N140 load is very accurate. Maybe I'm just being too conservative with the loads. I am loading long, the throat on this Tikka seems very long! Probably losing velocity due to that.

The throat is’ very long, try the N555 or N540 or better yet H4895 is really good under those 155 Scenars at 44.2-44.4 gr
You might want to test a few different primers as well.

 

[Tangent]

The throat is’ very long, try the N555 or N540 or better yet H4895 is really good under those 155 Scenars at 44.2-44.4 gr
You might want to test a few different primers as well.

I did have a load of 155.5gr Bergers with 44.0gr of N140, very accurate but like everything else over here (sunny England) components are very hard to find and expensive. N140 is £104/kg if you can find it.