How critical is runout at 100 yds

[Poconolg]

I only shoot at 100yds. I have a Rem 700 action and a Hart barrel with a Jewell trigger in 22-250. I have 34 targets over the last 3 years under 1/4". At this range what would be the acceptable runout. I am getting about .004 runout. Is this amount of runout OK? I average 5 shot groups most of the time under 1/2". Lapua brass annealed after each time I use them. Ammerman bullets in a 1-14 barrel vv150 powder

 

[Bill Norris]

Never been able to detect a difference in runout in my groups. Don't think it really matters. As Alex Wheeler said on a pod cast with Erik Cortina once the cartridge is in the chamber with the minimal clearance surrounding it there can't be much room for it to be crooked.

 

[SeabeeKen]

I had a bad die once that induced .010 neck runout and it was noticeable at 100. Once a good die was used the groups improved. .004, I wouldnt worry with it. The throat will right it.

 

[markm87]

I sorted off some .308 SMK factory ammo one time, and shot the worst runouts (.007" and such) against the straightest rounds at 100 meters expecting to see a big difference in group size. But they were about the same.

 

[Eagle Six]

I periodically check neck runout after sizing and bullet runout after seating on my rudimentary concentricity gauge. I'm loading Berger VLD's and Hybrid bullets in Alpha cases. Necks are within .0005 and bullets are in around .001-.0015. That makes me happy. I have shot factory match with as much as .005 and the groups were within 3/8 moa. Concentricity gauges are like bore scopes, sometimes they are your friend and sometimes they will drive you crazy! If I was shooting .1XX" groups concentricity might be a concern, but most likely to do that I would be jamming the bullet and then runout wouldn't much matter.

So because it's convenient, I now and again check runout, to more or less check uniformity of my setup. If I didn't have the concentricity gauge it wouldn't be a big deal. Find a flat table surface, slowly roll a cartridge and watch the bullet point, don't get to close. If you can detect the bullet wobble there may be a problem in the setup. Then examine the target, it's a much better gauge.

 

[K22]

Average of 5 shot groups 1/2 moa and under with a 22 250! That is supreme varmint / predator level hunting precision.

As guys much smarter than me in the shooting sports have said, "Believe Your Target." I would just keep doing what you're doing.

Don't invent a problem to solve. Or other words, "if ain't broke, don't fix it."

 

[F Class John]

You have to be comfortable and confident with what your concentricity is and how it's affecting your targets but for me, here's how I feel about it and maybe it'll help you.

 

[Bob3700]

Take ur loaded rounds and while u are checking the neck/bullet runout, mark (index) the high or low spot on the brass with a sharpie. Now take these marked rounds and load them in your rifle with the indexed mark either all at 12 or 6 o'clock. See if the indexing of the rounds changes your groups any.

I would say that if your TIR on loaded rounds is .0015" or less, you have nothing to worry about. Any of the loaded rounds greater than that, try indexing them like I outlined above.

 

[Doug Casner]

At lake city the govt. spec. was .005 but that was for a m60 machine gun. They had to hit a circle at 600 yds. I dont remember how big the circle was. My groups tightened up when I started using in line seaters. Doug

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

If you took the number of rds to build a database to be meaningful(testing run out at 100 yards) your 22-250 barrel would be shoot out.

 

[Bill Norris]

I had a bad die once that induced .010 neck runout and it was noticeable at 100. Once a good die was used the groups improved. .004, I wouldnt worry with it. The throat will right it.

Yea, when setting up a new die is about the only time I mess with the concentricity gauge to make sure nothing wonky is going on.

 

[Eagle Six]

At lake city the govt. spec. was .005 but that was for a m60 machine gun. They had to hit a circle at 600 yds. I dont remember how big the circle was. My groups tightened up when I started using in line seaters. Doug

Minute of Man

 

[mikecr]

The affect of loaded runout has nothing to do with bore misalignment.
Instead, varying results manifest with chambered ammo interference fitting.
In other words, with excess runout (w/resp to chamber), barrel pressure points are created.

So the affects of various runout numbers across this industry are no more consistent than chamber clearances w/resp to ammo straightness, and build sensitivities to chamber pressure points.

 

[Downhill]

Not to derail but, let's say we are running 2 thousandths neck tension and seating to "jam". Would this not correct any issue with run out?

 

[F Class John]

Not to derail but, let's say we are running 2 thousandths neck tension and seating to "jam". Would this not correct any issue with run out?

In my opinion you're correct and that's basically the gist of what's happening in my video above. I don't even think you'd need a hard jam to get this effect to occur, in my video I was off the lands. Let's call it 'chamber straightening'. I suppose you could argue that you'd need a good chamber and properly loaded rounds to get this to happen but I figure that's a given with this group. In the end, bad loads are bad loads whether perfectly concentric or not.

Edit: None of this is to say we don't care about runout/concentricity nor should we TRY to load ammo with excessive runout/concentricity. It's simply to say that if you're loading good ammo and you're seeing a little variance that there's probably a good handful of other issues affecting your accuracy or precision that are far more detrimental than a little runout/concentricity.

 

[mikecr]

Not to derail but, let's say we are running 2 thousandths neck tension and seating to "jam". Would this not correct any issue with run out?

No. That won't ever pass tests.

 

[Zero333]

Good enough for me !
J/K

 

[Downhill]

View attachment 1518400

Good enough for me !
J/K

If the bolt will close, looks to be an "X"

 

[piie]

If the bolt will close, looks to be an "X"

And if the bolt won't close, you're not closing it with enough force

 

[Rsadams]

Yea, when setting up a new die is about the only time I mess with the concentricity gauge to make sure nothing wonky is going on.

This.... I tried it like everything else and it ended up taking up space on my bench and gathering dust... Waiting on the economy to move so I have plenty of clean up these kind of things and put them back in their original box for the move.... Haven't missed it a bit... I will probably unbox it again one day or it will end up in the latest and greatest box... I have found out over the years why reloading companies don't let you try before you buy things...lol