Help With: Benchmark powder, Barnes TSX 130 Grain, 30-06 Rifle

[ib3006]

Hello everyone. This is my first post here and I am going to just jump right in.

Being that this will be my first reload I am wanting some extra eyes on this and get some feedback on my starting load choice.

Barnes TSX 30 cal 130 grain
Hodgdon Benchmark 47 grains
Ginex Primers
Remington 700 30-06
Brass once fired Winchester, Remington and Norma

My main concern is I am unable to find any load data from Hodgdon for this bullet and Benchmark powder. They do have a listing for a SPR HP with a starting load of 48 grains. Unable to find a starting load from Barnes for Benchmark.

Let me know if yall think this is a good starting charge, adjust it or should I abort and start hunting for a different powder to charge these bullets?

Thank you in advance!

 

[NZ_Fclass]

I know nothing about Barnes bullets, but neither Benchmark or 130g anything would not be on my list for an'06.

Hodgdon suggest 48g for a generic 130g, so that's your start point. I would look at Varget or H4895 as a better bet - but if you have Benchmark, try it - but increase your load slowly, looking for the usual pressure signs.

 

[Jager]

Like @NZ_Fclass said, Benchmark is not a very good choice of powder for the 130gr Barnes in a .30-06.

A good rule-of-thumb is to start with load data from the bullet maker. In your case, Barnes lists this on their web site, for the .30-06:




Benchmark would have you losing 100-150 fps over most of the choices here. And you'd hit max pressure at just a bit over 90% case capacity, so it probably wouldn't be terribly accurate, either.

The other thing is you don't generally want to mix headstamps unless you're making cheap plinking ammo that is loaded to low pressure levels and accuracy doesn't matter. You'd be better off sorting your brass by headstamp and not assuming they'll shoot the same or make the same pressure.

Welcome to the forum. And welcome to reloading!

 

[Ned Ludd]

I would consider Benchmark too fast for .30-06, even with relatively light hunting bullets. I would be thinking more about powders between Varget and H4350 in terms of burn rate. That being said, an awful lot of light to medium weight bullets have been loaded for the .30-06 over the years using IMR4895, which I would also consider too fast for a .30-06 case, so go figure. Just be sure to start low and work up carefully. With a fine grained powder such as Benchmark, you are likely to end up with a case fill ratio well below 90%, but don't let the possible appearance of the case being underfilled trick you into starting higher, at least in the beginning.

 

[Homerange]

I know nothing about Barnes bullets, but neither Benchmark or 130g anything would not be on my list for an'06.

Hodgdon suggest 48g for a generic 130g, so that's your start point. I would look at Varget or H4895 as a better bet - but if you have Benchmark, try it - but increase your load slowly, looking for the usual pressure signs.

H Benchmark = ADI Benchmark 2

Powder equivalents

Powder equivalents Note: This table shows only approximate equivalent values within about 5%. Actual burning rates can vary depending on the calibre, firearm, loading components and practices, as well as from powder lot to lot. As a consequence, it must be understood that Australian Munitions...

www.adiworldclass.com.au

Yes it's a little on the slow side with 130's and ADI Benchmark 8208 would be the better choice.
Varget/ADI 2208 would be faster again.

Data – Rifle

Whenever practicable, avoid loading to maximum possible velocity. Safety Data Sheets include all information relating to product composition, safety, handling and storage.

www.adiworldclass.com.au

 

[ben-o]

I’m sure it can work, but as others have said, it might not be ideal. You don’t have to limit yourself to Barnes’ data, but I’d try to find at least 2 sources of data using that powder and bullet weight, before using a copper bullet with jacketed lead bullet data. There are too many examples of one source’s starting load being higher than another’s “max.” The “one book/one caliber” manuals are a good resource.

Also, don’t jam the Barnes bullets into the rifling. They say to start at .050” and work out from there.

Thats a great bullet, though. I shoot them at about 3050 fps in my 308. You can go a lot faster with the 30-06, but you probably don’t need to.

 

[ib3006]

Thank you @NZ_Fclass @Ned Ludd @Homerange and @Jager for the great info.

So, yes, hunt down some better powder. Yes, start at 48 grains with the Benchmark, as I have it for now (and for science).

Also, thank you @Homerange for the great resource site.

@Ned Ludd Definitely keeping the brass all seperate. Curious to see how each holds up over time. Found it interesting that the Winchester was the heaviest of the three.

Thanks again all.

 

[Homerange]

Also, thank you @Homerange for the great resource site.

No worries.
Many are not aware ADI make a lot of the Hodgdon powder range so whenever one is mentioned I go to ADI and share the links.
Study all the data posted, speeds and pressures however you are working with the Barnes so work up slowly.
Stay safe.

 

[Ned Ludd]

...

So, yes, hunt down some better powder. Yes, start at 48 grains with the Benchmark, as I have it for now (and for science).

...

I might consider starting even lower based on the Speer Reloading Manual...maybe 45 or 46 gr for the first try. Two powders listed that are somewhat close in burn rate and kernel size/shape to Benchmark are shown boxed in red. If 45-46 gr is too low, then you know which direction to go for the next outing. But when starting with a relative unknown like this (i.e. Benchmark powder in a .30-06), better safe than sorry.

 

[ib3006]

Alright, found this bit of information in my search for more info on the Barnes full copper bullet.

Hodgdon Benchmark 94.0 52.9 3.43 3085 99.7 60500 9242 0.967 ! Near Maximum

Link to thread info came from

@Ned Ludd
I feel that 45 grains is going to be pretty low for this setup. The starting charge for H4895 from the Barnes data sheet is 52.5 grains.




Based on the info that @Homerange sent over, it listed IMR 3031 as a similar powder to Benchmark.


Link to site here

Which brings 50.5 to be the closer charge based on that info.

Knowing this, what could be the worst case scenario if I went with a really low charge? If it is just really wild shots then I am more than willing to start way low and work up. Thoughts?

@ben-o I think the One Book / One Cartridge is going to be my next read. Also, I am starting with Barnes C.O.L. until I feel good about the charge, but good to know about the jump.

 

[Jager]

50.5/Benchmark behind a Barnes 130gr TSX in a .30-06 is almost certainly not going to do something terrible. Other than likely lie somewhere between mediocre and pretty damned awful in terms of accuracy.

My question would be why are you so all-fired bent on using a powder that's clearly sub-optimal for your very first experience at reloading? Heck, you can pick up any number of factory rounds that are going to shoot better than what you're fixing to put together.

There's a larger caution here, though, and the reason I'm making this post. Lots of us go "off-roading" in the handloading world - putting together load combinations that aren't in the books. But to do that before you have a pretty good understanding of what's what is asking for trouble.

Your thought process about starting with a "really low charge," for instance, thinking that'll keep your not-in-any-of-the-books load from getting you in trouble. And it likely will, in this instance, with that load. But say you decide to try a heavier bullet with a slower powder in a few months... and you apply that very same "really low charge" line of thinking, believing that in so doing you're being extra safe. Well, you might blow your gun up in that scenario.

Maybe you're wondering how come IMR-3031 is listed for that 130gr Barnes, and not Benchmark? They're within spitting distance of each other on the burn rate chart, after all.

There are a couple of reasons for that, the biggest being that the bulk density of the two powders is very different. Burn rate isn't everything.

Published loads - in the books or from reputable online bullet/powder sources, not from some stranger on the internet (me included) - are the yellow lines on the road, so to speak. Do yourself a favor and pick up some of those sources and let them be your guiding light.

There's a special delight that comes with crafting your own ammo, ammo that's superior in every way to what they sell down at Cabela's. Set yourself up to enjoy some of that delight.

Wishing you the best, in any case.

 

[ben-o]

Knowing this, what could be the worst case scenario if I went with a really low charge? If it is just really wild shots then I am more than willing to start way low and work up. Thoughts?

There are lots of warnings out there about the dangers of of starting too low. I’m not qualified to speculate what too low is in this situation, but we have both minimums and maximum charges for a reason. As I understand it, too much empty space in the case can potentially cause an explosion thats even worse than using too much powder.

 

[ib3006]

My question would be why are you so all-fired bent on using a powder that's clearly sub-optimal for your very first experience at reloading? Heck, you can pick up any number of factory rounds that are going to shoot better than what you're fixing to put together.

Agreed, I pretty much thought it myself and hinted toward it on my initial question/post. Abort and start over.

I've picked up some speer 165gr hot cor that I was planning on using 45 grain of the Benchmark to start. Called around and found a place that has some Varget, hopefully they will still have it tomorrow and I'll use it for the Barnes.

 

[ib3006]

There are lots of warnings out there about the dangers of of starting too low. I’m not qualified to speculate what too low is in this situation, but we have both minimums and maximum charges for a reason. As I understand it, too much empty space in the case can potentially cause an explosion thats even worse than using too much powder.

So if my rifle sounds like a rainstick it's probably not a good thing.

 

[snert]

I use Varget in 308 and the Barnes TTSX. Keep in mind that loading a monocore bullet (like the TTSX) and a lead/copper jacket bullet are different animals.

Follow the info you see on the pages listed above from Barnes and you will do fine. Use the OAL they suggest and you will be safe and likely have decent accuracy from the go.

 

[ib3006]

Below is what I received from Barnes on the subject. I sent them an email before I decided to switch my powder from Benchmark to Varget (was able to get some from 10ring yesterday).

Posting for reference.

If wanting to use a powder/bullet we do not have load data listed, you can use "other" (jacketed lead core or monolithic) bullet load data when loading a Barnes Bullet of equal (or close to) weight. Using data from HodgdonReloading.com or other sources/powder/bullet manufacturers. JUST BE SURE TO START AT THE MINIMUM STARTING LOAD and work up from there in half grain increments watching for signs of high pressure such as, a sticky (hard) bolt lift when ejecting the fired case, ejector mark on the case head stamp or flattened/leaky primers. Once you notice any of the high pressure signs then you will want to lower the charge about half a grain or so to where no high pressure signs are present, and that would technically be "YOUR" rifle's max load. The load data published by all of the companies is just a reference point/guideline to safely start out at the minimum charges. The MAX charge solely depends on your rifle's chamber, barrel length, powder lot #, brass case capacity/manufacturer and your environmental conditions. Using a website, loaddata.com’s “THE ULTIMATE RELOADING MANUAL” for the sole purpose of finding specific load data can be a huge time saver.

When loading a Barnes TSX, Tipped TSX or LRX bullet, your rifle may prefer a bullet jump of anywhere between .050” up to .250” or more. This distance off the lands (rifling), aka “jump” may be limited to the rifles throat length, magazine length and bullet length.

When selecting the cartridge overall length (COAL) we recommend starting with a minimum “jump” of .050” off the lands. This is the point where your load development should begin. You can then later test different seating depths and find a “sweet spot” that your particular firearm prefers. We suggest working in at least .025” increments as follows seating the bullet deeper to allow a further jump. Your test plan could look something like this:

1st group- .050” jump
2nd group- .075” jump
3rd group- .100” jump
4th group- .125” jump
5th group- .150“ jump
6th group- * see below

This length can be determined by using a “Stoney Point Gauge” or other methods/tools designed to determine your rifles best COAL. You do not have to seat the bullet at, or on one of the cannelure/pressure relief rings. The pressure relief rings have nothing to do with seating depth; ignore them! Remember, there are many factors that may control or limit the seating depth for your application. You may find that you need to start at around 0.150” off the lands and are not able to get any closer due to limiting factors including proper neck tension and magazine length.

*In rifles that have long throats you may be limited on how close you are able to get the bullet to the lands. In these instances, it is not uncommon to find the best accuracy with a jump of .200” or more.

This jump may possibly stay the same regardless of powder or charge weight within a given rifle. If preferred accuracy is not obtained, we certainly recommend trying another powder, for the powder type and charge greatly affects the overall accuracy of each individual firearm.

FYI- An accurate load requires a bullet with the proper consistent case neck tension which leads to more constant pressures and velocities.

Using the above two processes, I’d use the load data for the 130 gr SPR HP bullet on the Hodgdon powder website. Make sure you begin with the Starting Load of 48.0 gr and work up.


Thank You

Alan | Consumer Service
Barnes Bullets

 

[RegionRat]

All of the above plus another piece of advice on swapping powders around without referenced data.

Just because H4895 can be downloaded, do not assume something close to it on the "burn charts" will run the same.

H4895 is a little unique in terms of the ability to safely down load in bottle neck rifle cartridges. It is one of the few powders you will find recommended for this, so don't assume the adjacent ones on those charts will do the same.

If you ever get to see pressure data, and see an example of a double peak from downloading, you will not want to play that game.

While high pressure as the charge goes up is something everyone tends to understand, the opposite end of the published data is less well understood. Play it safe and don't go off the maps high or low unless you are an expert.

It should be easy enough to get one of the powders that are well published for your bullet and cartridge to run safely.

The Barnes copper bullets have always surprised me in terms of seating depth response. In my experience, they tend to come to life with more jump (deeper seating) than what one would expect.

My last comment is one I cannot explain, but scrub the barrel well before you run these, and again after if you are switching back to regular bullets.

Good Luck and Play It Safe.