New to 223 Flat Base Bullets

[K22]

Looks like my chamfering has been light compared to what I have seen in Post 2 MisterHelix and by what you are saying. What led me to even post about this was that I could not see getting the bullet to stay balanced at all on the mouth and that any movement raising the ram would have it tilted. But definitely going to consider the Matchmaster in post 15. Seems like a good thing to get on Cyber Monday.

I don't chamfer to that degree, but a slight bevel is noticeable.

I don't understand why you can't keep the bullet "balanced" as you begin to seat it. Raise the ram then place the bullet between your thumb and trigger finger then place it on the neck as the cartridge enters the seating die. Don't rush it. The seating die should center the bullet enough, so the bullet enters the case aligned. Seat the bullet about 1/4" then rotate the cartridge and complete the seating process. A gentle touch works really well, at least for me.

In the old days, flat base bullet dominated the offerings. With proper expansion of the neck and careful seating as describe above, thousands of these bullets were reloaded without issue. Most short-range bench rest shooters in those days preferred flat base bullets.

 

[searcher]

I typed in the RCBS Matchmaster Super and couldn't find it till I finally realized there was a period before Super. lol

This one I found on Midway is the Matchmaster Competition. Is this the one you are recommending. This one has the seating window and bullet retaining system and that I would think checks the boxes, but i want to be sure. Thanks in advance.

RCBS MatchMaster Competition 223 Remington Bullet Seating Die

What sets the MatchMaster seating die apart from the competition is the bullet seating window with bullet retaining system. Simply place the bullet in...

www.midwayusa.com

You will be happy with that die. I use them in various calibers. They will hold your bullet in proper orientation, as will other sleeve dies - but this one is a lot easier to insert the bullet. You DO want a 45 degree inside chamfer and all will be fine.

 

[JB10]

I only load flat based bullets in my 204 and have no issues. I just hold the bullet as long as i can untill in the die and just go slowly. Press the bullet about half way in then turn the brass 180 in the shell holder and completely seat the bullet. No issues

 

[Homerange]

I don't chamfer to that degree, but a slight bevel is noticeable.

I don't understand why you can't keep the bullet "balanced" as you begin to seat it. Raise the ram then place the bullet between your thumb and trigger finger then place it on the neck as the cartridge enters the seating die. Don't rush it. The seating die should center the bullet enough, so the bullet enters the case aligned. Seat the bullet about 1/4" then rotate the cartridge and complete the seating process. A gentle touch works really well, at least for me.

In the old days, flat base bullet dominated the offerings. With proper expansion of the neck and careful seating as describe above, thousands of these bullets were reloaded without issue. Most short-range bench rest shooters in those days preferred flat base bullets.

This ^^^
For some of us oldies these new fangled boat tails made no difference to the way we fed a projectile and case into a seating die.
Balancing projectiles in the mouth of a case, who ever heard of such a thing ?

 

[Camper]

You will be happy with that die. I use them in various calibers. They will hold your bullet in proper orientation, as will other sleeve dies - but this one is a lot easier to insert the bullet. You DO want a 45 degree inside chamfer and all will be fine.

Thanks for that info. I see hornady makes a 45 degree chamfer that I can attach to my lyman case prep xpress so I will order that too.

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

I use a vld tool for all my 223 brass(17,20 also) and I load both fb and bt bullets. And use both traditional and window seating die. I make sure new brass and tumbler washed brass necks have some sort of inside neck lube, otherwise the carbon inside seems enough. I do keep a carboned(dirty) up neck brush around.

 

[Camper]

This ^^^
For some of us oldies these new fangled boat tails made no difference to the way we fed a projectile and case into a seating die.
Balancing projectiles in the mouth of a case, who ever heard of such a thing ?

When I first started 223, about 4 years ago, I didn't set myself up for success that well. I had mixed brass that I did not prep as well as I should have and I remember getting some shavings in my ram and it basically shut things down till I took apart the ram and cleaned it out. But I could barely move the ram at one point. Since then I have been able to get a good fit before I even raise the ram. I just want to avoid that. I use to deprime on the press till I had some primers come out in fragments and get stuck in the ram. So I'm willing to learn a little more before hand these days. lol But sometimes even with my best efforts things don't go smoothly.

 

[Tesoro]

K&M VLD chamfering tool. If you want one I have one. The VLD bit is confusing because it is made for flat base!! totally adjustable and concentric as it guides off the prime hole.

 

[Homerange]

When I first started 223, about 4 years ago, I didn't set myself up for success that well. I had mixed brass that I did not prep as well as I should have and I remember getting some shavings in my ram and it basically shut things down till I took apart the ram and cleaned it out. But I could barely move the ram at one point. Since then I have been able to get a good fit before I even raise the ram. I just want to avoid that. I use to deprime on the press till I had some primers come out in fragments and get stuck in the ram. So I'm willing to learn a little more before hand these days. lol But sometimes even with my best efforts things don't go smoothly.

LOL
All you needed was a $4 tool.

Chamfer Tool

Lee Chamfer tool chamfers and deburs inside and outside of case necks. Also used to remove the crimp from primer pockets

www.leeprecision.com

 

[Camper]

K&M VLD chamfering tool. If you want one I have one. The VLD bit is confusing because it is made for flat base!! totally adjustable and concentric as it guides off the prime hole.

I just googled it. I had no idea there was such precision tools for this task. I've been learning a lot about how little I know lately. lol

 

[Tesoro]

I just googled it. I had no idea there was such precision tools for this task. I've been learning a lot about how little I know lately. lol

it cuts perfect even chamfers and you can adjust for the depth. i was doing 20 tho width but dont use it anymore/

 

[Camper]

LOL
All you needed was a $4 tool.

Chamfer Tool

Lee Chamfer tool chamfers and deburs inside and outside of case necks. Also used to remove the crimp from primer pockets

www.leeprecision.com

I had and rcbs hand tool, I just didn't do a good job with it. I haven't had that problem since.

 

[Brians356]

Looks like my chamfering has been light compared to what I have seen

A light chamfer is best, and reloading manuals have always advised to minimally chamfer. I prefer flat-based bullets in varmint rifles, and have never had trouble seating them. Overdoing chamfer and deburr will leave the case mouth susceptible to damage, especially in autoloaders. Look at a factory once-fired case - that's all the chamfer you need, hard to even see, it's just not a sharp corner. I chamfer/deburr a case to the extreme as I see on this forum only when making myself a leather hole punch - a 223 case sharpened and pinched oval makes perfect holes in a leather belt.


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[Camper]

A light chamfer is best, and reloading manuals have always advised to minimally chamfer. I prefer flat-based bullets in varmint rifles, and have never had trouble seating them. Overdoing chamfer and deburr will leave the case mouth susceptible to damage, especially in autoloaders. Look at a factory once-fired case - that's all the chamfer you need, hard to even see, it's just not a sharp corner. I chamfer/deburr a case to the extreme as I see on this forum only when making myself a leather hole punch - a 223 case sharpened and pinched oval makes perfect holes in a leather belt.

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That was the guidance I was going by when I started. I started with a Lyman manual and a half million videos. I'm going to get the RCBS Matchmaster die and hold onto the Lyman M Die as well. It will probably be the only caliber I use FB bullets with, but if I do others at least now I know ahead of time to be more prepared. Thanks.

 

[mac86951]

I suppose that we should ask; what sizing die are you using, and what's your before and after bullet seating neck diameter? Reason I ask, as I load for 222 I've found that if I have that copper ring shaved off the bullet, accuracy drops. I resolved this with chamfer depth and neck tension by acquiring a different bushing.

They say that for ARs you want 3-4 thou if neck tension; for flat based bullets, I'd argue that you'd want 2-3thou; however, I do know that loading for ARs various dies often overwork, and undersize necks of 223. I'm curious what an anneal, or a post sizing neck mandrel could do for you.

-Mac

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

I shoot by far more flat base bullets that boat tails but I know many that shoot bt's just for the reason you mention. To me, it's not a big deal at all...mostly a matter of what you're use to. But yes, a bt sets on top easier, which makes going to fb bullets a little clumsy feeling if you are use to bt's. Shoot what shoots best and don't worry about it. If you collapse necks simply because of a fb bullet, you're likely running a God aweful amount of neck tension or some other easily cured problem but it's not the bullet's fault. It's just a small benefit of a bt, especially the really long high bc bullets. They do make it nice with a wilson inline type die, though. I seat bullets with a press mounted die and just hold the bullet until it starts into the bottom of the die as the ram goes up. Super easy either way.

 

[K22]

This ^^^
For some of us oldies these new fangled boat tails made no difference to the way we fed a projectile and case into a seating die.
Balancing projectiles in the mouth of a case, who ever heard of such a thing ?

I've loaded thousands of flat base bullets, namely Sierra Blitz, Pro-Hunters, Hornaday 55 and 60 Vmax's and never had a problem shaving the jacket.

 

[coldboreshot]

I load Berger 52g flat base in one of my 223 loads in kind of a two stage process. I just set the bullet atop the neck and and lower the (Redding Comp die) until I feel the seating stem comtact the bullet tip. It squares off the bullet, slight lift, then final seat. I have never had any accuracy issues, variable velocities or wild SD's this way.
Hope ypu find a solution that works for you.

 

[Webster]

I recently bought some flat base bullets, Hornady 60gr Vmax. I put one on a neck to see if it would be tighter without the boat tails I usually use and it wasn't just tight, there is no wiggle room to get it to even balance on the neck. I read that chamfering would help this, but is that a good idea? It didn't work in the least when I tried it a few turns inside the neck, but if I kept going and shaved a lot off the inside of the neck, I guess it probably would. But how smart is that? Seems like a terrible idea. Is the M die the answer? I have a universal expander but I am leaning towards the M die cause it looks like I can go a little further down the neck and not worry about expanding as much as I would probably expand it with the universal expander. I see if I go to far there it will expand even more for hard cast bullets.

To those that use this M die for flat base bullets, do you just go deep enough for it to balance the bullet like a boat tail or do you go the full distance just prior to where it will expand more for hard cast? I don't think this should have any affect on crimping with the M die, but let me know if there is any, I don't want to assume.

I'm disappointed I didn't foresee this ahead of time. What I do load, I load well, but I feel there have been a lot of things lately that I should have known about that I didn't have a clue about. I have good loads with 60gr TMKs, only in the bolt action. I'm looking to load the 60gr Vmax for a 24 inch bolt action 1:9 and for a 16 inch AR 1:7. I plan to start with H335 and maybe CFE223 afterwards when I complete separate loads for each with the H335. Any other info would be welcome.

You shouldn't be crimping any cases. The bullets probably don't have a crimping grove. You might be distorting the bullet shape? You should always chamfer the case o.d. and i.d. You don't need a heavy bevel. Buy a Redding FL bushing die so you can control the neck diameter. Standard FL dies size the necks way to small. Like someone else said I hold the bullet on the case with my fingers till it enters the die. Been reloading for small varmint hunting groups for 50 years.

 

[wkndwarrior]

I use a matchmaster seating die for 223 and Frankford arsenal universal seating die for 220/22-250/221 FB and get the same runout between the two dies on my coax. Something to consider if you load for multiple calibers.