6BRA Alpha Brass question

[dgeesaman]

My fireform load is 31gr 4166 sending 108bt at 2890, and the web is only 0.4692 I have 900pcs alpha ocd, never had an issue, other than not getting the velocity achievable with lapua.

The vastness of your experience did nothing to prevent this from happening in mine.

My fired 6BRA brass is about .4714 at the .200. .002 is a very big difference and I don’t believe all brass can handle that much expansion there. So I’m an advocate for keeping Alpha 6BRA brass in Alpha spec chambers only.

David

 

[highdrum]

The vastness of your experience did nothing to prevent this from happening in mine.

My fired 6BRA brass is about .4714 at the .200. .002 is a very big difference and I don’t believe all brass can handle that much expansion there. So I’m an advocate for keeping Alpha 6BRA brass in Alpha spec chambers only.

David

I completely agree, alpha brass should be in alpha chambers. But the difference between a Wheeler and alpha chamber is 0.0004 at 200 line. I ran alpha ocd in a Wheeler spec chamber for 1500 rounds, never a split case, never a web over 4704 upon firing with H4350 and 105s at 2940fps was hottest I went. I have a feeling your chamber is bigger than 0.4714 at the base if you pin gauged.

 

[Ccrider]

I completely agree, alpha brass should be in alpha chambers. But the difference between a Wheeler and alpha chamber is 0.0004 at 200 line. I ran alpha ocd in a Wheeler spec chamber for 1500 rounds, never a split case, never a web over 4704 upon firing with H4350 and 105s at 2940fps was hottest I went. I have a feeling your chamber is bigger than 0.4714 at the base if you pin gauged.

You are making an ass sumption that all alpha brass is the same.

 

[DHuffman]

You are making an ass sumption that all alpha brass is the same.

Exactly, the mere existence of these threads is proof it's not, there are lot to lot inconsistencies. Some people have lucked out and got brass compatible with their chamber and many have not.

 

[highdrum]

You are making an ass sumption that all alpha brass is the same.

Well that is true, I never had any the early test brass received by Wheeler and Tom that was the bees knees. All my brass is from early 22, May lot. I know the problems started when the production lot started getting to shooters, differing vastly from the pre-production.

I've ran alpha 65cm brass in an oversized Tikka chamber and never had bases that big. Lapua ended up working better in this rifle as the alpha didn't like to grip the big chamber, similar to the alpha bra/Wheeler chamber issue.

I've got a lot of alpha brass, 1500pcs of 22 and 6gt, 900x pcs 6bra, 500x pcs 65cm that's been necked to 25cm, 400pcs 6cm. Not one has split. I know the case head/web is very hard, so I don't break them in lightly. My experience with alpha brass has been very positive, minus the bra, or if you have an oversized chamber.

To add, after talking with alpha over the winter, they sent me 50pcs of their newest lot 6bra brass, it weighed within a half grain and had same neck thickness of my older lot. Same change weight gave same velocity/accuracy of my current brass. After it was formed, I ran it up to pressure with varget and it seemed to start intermittent lift around 2900-2920 like my older brass. So it appeard to be created equally in terms of performance.

 

[highdrum]

Exactly, the mere existence of these threads is proof it's not, there are lot to lot inconsistencies. Some people have lucked out and got brass compatible with their chamber and many have not.

So you believe all the chambers are exact same? The brass has to be the problem? A reamer is a reamer, if it's jgs. Other manufacturers cannot be trusted to hold the same spec reamer to reamer.

But here's the biggest variability, the smiths ability to dial in to near or at zero runout, but then to have the tooling and equipment rigid enough to keep the reamer/fuxture from flexing and keeping it all true 0000s while chambering, that's a totally different thing.

I've had 4 25 creed barrels cut with the same exact reamer, 3 have been great, lapua and alpha runs great, warm loads expand the bases to 4705, sizes to 4697ish. I had one spun by a supposed good smith as I needed it quick, and fired cases are 4725, when the reamer print is 4714. My point, not all smith work is the same, very few great smiths, handful of good, lots of mediocre and sub par.

 

[dgeesaman]

For anyone who is wondering, my reamer is from JGS and it was chambered by Bob Green. It’s the Wheeler specs except for a .271 neck. My actual chamber diameter is a touch bigger than the .4714 brass because they extracted without a click. I don’t have pin gauges in the .471x range and knowing that would not change this discussion.

Normally a single anecdotal experience is not useful data against a number of successful comparative examples. But when it comes to safety it most certainly IS.

 

[DHuffman]

So you believe all the chambers are exact same?

I'm not going to go back and look but I know I never said that.

 

[tom]

Well that is true, I never had any the early test brass received by Wheeler and Tom that was the bees knees.

I actually never had any that could run the high node without bolt lift. That was Glenn that had the great luck, before I ever decided to try some....basically his results were the very reason to try it. And his chamber was NOT smaller because we had no experience yet with this.....I know all these reamers fairly well, and his was actually the opposite of smaller lol.

Tom

 

[Fire Dog]

I have a Pacific Tool and Die BRAI reamer with a .272" {no neck turn} print#25828 and have used both Lapua and Peterson 6BR Norma brass as parent case and never had a problem. Stoking them up with CCI450, 31.6gr Varget{AR2208} and a .020 jump on the 105 Hybrids. Have used H4895 {AR2206H} at 30.6gr
I have loaned this reamer to another club shooter {yeah, we are in competition...} and he has not had any of the problems described here either.
Have a Whidden bushing/shoulder bump die that they made for me from fired cases as once fired I just bump the shoulders one & half thousand and not full length size. Fire form the cases with about 8-10 thou jam and 30gr Varget. Shoots well right from the start... Just gets better {:~)

 

[Ccrider]

I will say this. Anything under 30.5 and the Alpha shoots well in my Wheeler bra. For my barrel, there is a node between 30.2 and 30.5 that will hold under 2 inches at 525 yards. Go much higher and I have bolt click at the top and stiff bolt upon opening. There is a higher node that I can reach with Lapua brass and have no problem.

 

[mr45man]

I don't know why you have a donut right out of the box?
And the primer pockets are not right in my opinion.
Gone back to Lapua.
Don't waist your time and money.

 

[highdrum]

I will say this. Anything under 30.5 and the Alpha shoots well in my Wheeler bra. For my barrel, there is a node between 30.2 and 30.5 that will hold under 2 inches at 525 yards. Go much higher and I have bolt click at the top and stiff bolt upon opening. There is a higher node that I can reach with Lapua brass and have no problem.

This is exactly where mine runs, 30.2-30.6 2850-2890 holds 1/3 moa vertical at 500y. I load 30.5 at 2880 with 105s. And it shoots well. This has been in Wheeler style and Alpha chambers. The Alpha reamer fixed nothing honestly. Maybe I'm griping about nothing, but I know lapua can run next node due to a bit more capacity and better chamber grip, but at a cost of reduced primer pocket life.

 

[highdrum]

I actually never had any that could run the high node without bolt lift. That was Glenn that had the great luck, before I ever decided to try some....basically his results were the very reason to try it. And his chamber was NOT smaller because we had no experience yet with this.....I know all these reamers fairly well, and his was actually the opposite of smaller lol.

Tom

My mistake, I never looked back, I was thinking it was you that had the excellent results. I have lapua 6br brass, I just don't want to dump all my alpha in the garbage and fireform all the new stuff. I'll just keep rocking on on the medium to slow side of things.

 

[tom]

My mistake, I never looked back, I was thinking it was you that had the excellent results. I have lapua 6br brass, I just don't want to dump all my alpha in the garbage and fireform all the new stuff. I'll just keep rocking on on the medium to slow side of things.

I had good results, just a lower node. I did some testing to try and evaluate flash hole sizes.

To be fair, the alpha is not equal in capacity. So it may be expecting to much out of the volume. If a guy wants to shoot a BRA capacity case, but not fire form, shoot alpha dasher. You'll basically have yourself a short neck BRA at that point.

Tom

 

[Link]

I spent a lot of ca$h on a barrel and chamber job. Sold the brass and rechambered to straight br, Then I found out it was the Alpha brass. Two late, a dollar short. I should have just firefformed the tried n true Lapaua.
;{

 

[JFrank]

I spent a lot of ca$h on a barrel and chamber job. Sold the brass and rechambered to straight br, Then I found out it was the Alpha brass. Two late, a dollar short. I should have just firefformed the tried n true Lapaua.
;{

But you learned something valuable.

 

[Dolomite]

Having these issues has anyone sent their 3x fired brass to Harrels to see if one of their sizing dies makes a difference?

 

[newbieshooter]

Having these issues has anyone sent their 3x fired brass to Harrels to see if one of their sizing dies makes a difference?

Looks like the original post (#1) mentioned doing that....

 

[DJSBRS]

Having these issues has anyone sent their 3x fired brass to Harrels to see if one of their sizing dies makes a difference?

The problem as stated throughout this thread is, the brass is so hard at the .200 line it doesn't expand in a Lapua chamber, even after seven firings to need FL sizing. Just bump the shoulder and size the neck to your chamber and keep firing away.

DJ