Reloading at the match

[BoydAllen]

Ya think he has done this a few times?

I would say so. At a match, with loading and barrel cleaning to be done, having efficient ways to doing these things is a very good idea. If you want to practice loading at the range, just set up a 2x4 foot folding table in the garage or out on the patio and do the whole thing with tools and components that you packed in a case. You may have to get creative mounting the press, but it is not that hard. PM me if you need help.

 

[jackieschmidt]

So...Only the serious short range 6PPC shooters reload at the range? At the matches I've attended there were many serious and VERY experienced big name shooters shooting 6PPC's reloading at the range that did not win. It showed me there is more to winning than reloading at the range. I still say the main difference between winners and losers is wind flag reading and trigger pull timing,all else being equal.
BTW....I've found that the 6PPC is not at all finicky....at least the 3 that I'm familiar with. Pointing the rifle in right direction and pulling the trigger at the right seems to be the key to success.

Don’t forget about those minor little things like barrels, bullets, and tuning.

You can’t shoot sub .200 aggregates with a .300+ rifle.

I totally agree with your first two sentences. It is a given that the top shooters at any 100/200 yard Group Match will be shooting a 6PPC, and loading at the range.
It is also a given that the shooter who comes in dead last will also be shooting a 6PPC, and loading at the range.

 

[Greg@wfcustom]

Simply put it if you shoot short range group your shooting a 6PPC which is a very finicky cartridge and if your serious about winning you have to load at the range, whereas if you shoot short range score most people are shooting a 30BR which is not a finicky cartridge at all and you can get away going preloaded which if you went preloaded in a 6PPC you would be at a big disadvantage.

I disagree. I have been a competitive SRBR Group shooter for over 20 years and have preloaded almost since the beginning. When you run the matches you almost have to. I have won multiple State, & Regional Championships, as well as numerous local club matches preloading, even got my name in the book at the Cactus one year. Of course you do need to know how to properly tune a barrel and recognize the “sweet spot” After that putting a tuner on the end seems almost like cheating! (Just kidding Mike)
Maybe it’s the weather out here on the Left Coast. I don’t know, it works for me YMMV.
G

 

[jackieschmidt]

Anyone can load at the range. The trick is to get it down before doing it at a match. Here is another video. Starting at about eight minutes in is the loading part. You don't need to understand the language.

This video is a good example of someone who “hunts and picks” the condition and someone who “runs“

The guy in the blue hat is the runner.

Only the size of each shooters group will say which style worked best in that particular situation.

 

[Greg@wfcustom]

To Bottom Feeder. Forget that BS about not using bronze brushes. The only way a bronze brush will harm a barrel is through stupidity.

Best advice I’ve seen today!
G

 

[JimPag]

So...Only the serious short range 6PPC shooters reload at the range? At the matches I've attended there were many serious and VERY experienced big name shooters shooting 6PPC's reloading at the range that did not win. It showed me there is more to winning than reloading at the range. I still say the main difference between winners and losers is wind flag reading and trigger pull timing,all else being equal.
BTW....I've found that the 6PPC is not at all finicky....at least the 3 that I'm familiar with. Pointing the rifle in right direction and pulling the trigger at the right seems to be the key to success.

You can't be serious about making a statement like, at the matches I've attended there were many serious and Very experienced big name shooters shooting 6PPC's reloading at the range that did not win. What a dumb statement. Everyone whether serious, experienced or whatever only one person gets to win. All I'm saying is when I was in the car with Tony Boyer going back to his house coming from a gun shop he asked me if I loaded at the range and I said Tony I only shoot score and mostly use a 30BR so I go preloaded. I said to him if I had to load at the range like you guys do I'd quit. He said well you if you shoot group you need to load at the range. He told me that if your gun starts to get out of tune you have to make changes either in powder or seating depth or both. If you think the PPC is not finicky you sure don't know anything about a PPC.

 

[R.Morehouse]

When I was getting started in SR BR, shooting a Goodling built 6ppc, Wilber reached out to me on the phone and said these would be one of the purchases I would appreciate most......He was right. I cut a piece of 2x4 plywood and take it with me everywhere I shoot, whether loading at the range or not. It has worked on everything from reloading equipment to dinner.....I never have to worry about bench space to do what I have to do.

Regards
Rick

 

[RoyinNC]

I don't think that the 6PPC is finicky, it's just the difference in expectations between group and score. In group, we are seeking perfection - a .000 group. In score, you can shoot what would be a .300+ group and still get a "perfect" score.

Since we went to a caliber neutral scoring system at our monthly score matches, almost every match has been won by a 6PPC!

 

[jackieschmidt]

I don't think that the 6PPC is finicky, it's just the difference in expectations between group and score. In group, we are seeking perfection - a .000 group. In score, you can shoot what would be a .300+ group and still get a "perfect" score.

Since we went to a caliber neutral scoring system at our monthly score matches, almost every match has been won by a 6PPC!

If the NBRSA ever adopted a “caliber neutral” Format rather than the current “best edge” Format, I would probably go with my 6PPC as well. Or possibly invest in the 22PPC .100 short.

This is even taking into consideration that I make my own 30 cal bullets.

The single problem I see with caliber neutral targets is under the current UBR format, they only have 22, 6mm and 308. As I understand it, if someone shows up with a 25, 6,5, or 7mm, they have to shoot at the smaller 30 caliber target.

That is probably not an issue at this time, but if more and more Sanctioning Bodie adopted the caliber neutral Format, it could become a problem.

The answer would be a tool that locates off of the dead center of the 10 ring measures how far the edge of a given caliber is from that point. It would be a scorers nightmare, but sooner or later a viable way to do this would have to be developed if you are going to make it truly caliber nuetral from 17 all the way up.

 

[RoyinNC]

I made a scoring reticle that used thicker lines for smaller calibers to enlarge them to 30 caliber. This is a much better solution than using caliber specific targets IMO.

 

[jackieschmidt]

I made a scoring reticle that used thicker lines for smaller calibers to enlarge them to 30 caliber. This is a much better solution than using caliber specific targets IMO.

That might be the real solution. It would be “score friendly” as well.
Diid you make it with a laser etching fixture on plexiglass, or how would you go about it.?

At Tomball, we discussed having a few Matches under the UBR Format, and the exact questions I raised in post #29 were raised.

 

[rjtfroggy]

It has been a while since I've seen anyone loading at the score matches I shoot at. Everyone comes pre-loaded, with enough for 2 days. 100 - 200 yards.

 

[JoeDuke]

That might be the real solution. It would be “score friendly” as well.
Diid you make it with a laser etching fixture on plexiglass, or how would you go about it.?

At Tomball, we discussed having a few Matches under the UBR Format, and the exact questions I raised in post #29 were raised.

Jackie, how many folks are currently showing up at the Tomball club matches shooting other than a .22, 6mm, or .308?

Not necessarily advocating any caliber neutral target. Just curious about the attendance since it has been a while since I shot the club matches there.

I am not sure there is any reason for a caliber neutral target. Almost any shooting discipline I have ever tried has had its own specific set of conditions that makes it almost require a specific rifle/ caliber / bullet /sights combination to be able to compete at that discipline. Score is no different. You build a rifle to compete under the current set of rules. you do not try to change the rules to match your rifle.

 

[David Milisock]

And then just adjust the tuner to what the winds flags are tell you. I guess LOL

How would the load modifications adjust for the wind.

Let's be honest as the range increases the winner is always the person who got luckiest with the wind.

 

[jackieschmidt]

It has been a while since I've seen anyone loading at the score matches I shoot at. Everyone comes pre-loaded, with enough for 2 days. 100 - 200 yards.

I will size and prime my cases for a single yardage Club Match, charge them and seat the bullets at the Match.

For Registered VFS Matches I do everything at the range.

The main reason I do this is because I never load anything at the house. I always load at the Range, for load development, practice, or anything else.

 

[David Milisock]

What I used to do years ago was scan my targets into the computer, calibrate the scan for size and squareness. I'd take that into my graphics program used to create mechanical drawings for manufacturing.

I'd create a perfect circle the bullet diameter with the outline set to the inside of the boundary, with a .002 center dot. I'd group those objects then duplicate the group for the number of the shots.

Placed over the target allows for caliber neutral group measurements.

 

[Greg@wfcustom]

How would the load modifications adjust for the wind.

Let's be honest as the range increases the winner is always the person who got luckiest with the wind.

"Luckiest"????????
Your kidding right?

 

[jackieschmidt]

Jackie, how many folks are currently showing up at the Tomball club matches shooting other than a .22, 6mm, or .308?

Not necessarily advocating any caliber neutral target. Just curious about the attendance since it has been a while since I shot the club matches there.

I am not sure there is any reason for a caliber neutral target. Almost any shooting discipline I have ever tried has had its own specific set of conditions that makes it almost require a specific rifle/ caliber / bullet /sights combination to be able to compete at that discipline. Score is no different. You build a rifle to compete under the current set of rules. you do not try to change the rules to match your rifle.

Joe, we have Factory and Modified Class Shooters shooting a lot of things other than a 30. 6.5 Creeds in particular.

But 98% of the serious Benchrest Class Shooters are shooting some type of 30 caliber.
We do not put many restrictions on the Benchrest Class. If is a legal firearm, is not return to battery(Rail Gun), you can shoot it in The Benchrest Class.

Most of the shooters just shoot their HV 30.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

Jackie, how many folks are currently showing up at the Tomball club matches shooting other than a .22, 6mm, or .308?

Not necessarily advocating any caliber neutral target. Just curious about the attendance since it has been a while since I shot the club matches there.

I am not sure there is any reason for a caliber neutral target. Almost any shooting discipline I have ever tried has had its own specific set of conditions that makes it almost require a specific rifle/ caliber / bullet /sights combination to be able to compete at that discipline. Score is no different. You build a rifle to compete under the current set of rules. you do not try to change the rules to match your rifle.

It's a different game so no rules were changed, Joe. I find it interesting, the different perspectives people have about the caliber neutral aspect of the game but I like the UBR format and it's been pretty successful in a relatively short period of time. The game allows you to shoot a 30, a 22 or a 6mm without being at a scoring advantage or disadvantage. Really nothing more and nothing less in that regard...just different is all. I think it works well because it does allow other calibers to be competitive. I see that as a good thing rather than having a negative view of it. Anything within reason to bring more guns and shooters to the sport of benchrest, I welcome and see no reason to view that in a negative light. The only reason I can imagine is from those that have a 30 and feel like shooting against a 22 or a 6 leaves them at a disadvantage for some reason, because no one is saying you can't still shoot your 30...you just don't have the same scoring advantage that it has in IBS or NBRSA. This is equal and allows us to shoot whatever we feel like gives us the best chance of winning with, as well as encouraging people to test things that aren't tested in other BR venues, as a whole. Again, I think it's more about perspective than anything. The new guy can shoot what he has and the old guy with a 6ppc group gun can shoot ubr without being at a disadvantage. This is especially nice where group matches are either long distances to drive or where a range may only have one or two group matches a year. Last weekend at the UBR Nationals, a 22 PPC pretty much ruled the roost taking 1st and 2nd in custom and 1st, 2nd and 3rd in modified classes. Somehow, some view a level playing field as a bad thing and others view a level playing field, a good thing. Not saying either perspective is right or wrong but I fall into the latter and I like the options that it gives without being penalized.

Shooting a 30 does have its advantages, like going pre loaded and being quite forgiving to tune changes, as well as their barrel life. But yes, they kick a little harder, of course. I'll say this and stop but on a level playing field, where people shoot several different calibers and cartridges, the venerable 6PPC holds its own very well but doesn't dominate. Same can be said about the 30's and even with this year's nationals butt whipping by the 22's, they don't typicall dominate either. There's a healthy mix of cartridges that win in UBR, head to head. I find that most interesting, as when head to head, the cartridge kings of BR are not nearly as dominant as some would think.

 

[jackieschmidt]

It's a different game so no rules were changed, Joe. I find it interesting, the different perspectives people have about the caliber neutral aspect of the game but I like the UBR format and it's been pretty successful in a relatively short period of time. The game allows you to shoot a 30, a 22 or a 6mm without being at a scoring advantage or disadvantage. Really nothing more and nothing less in that regard...just different is all. I think it works well because it does allow other calibers to be competitive. I see that as a good thing rather than having a negative view of it. Anything within reason to bring more guns and shooters to the sport of benchrest, I welcome and see no reason to view that in a negative light. The only reason I can imagine is from those that have a 30 and feel like shooting against a 22 or a 6 leaves them at a disadvantage for some reason, because no one is saying you can't still shoot your 30...you just don't have the same scoring advantage that it has in IBS or NBRSA. This is equal and allows us to shoot whatever we feel like gives us the best chance of winning with, as well as encouraging people to test things that aren't tested in other BR venues, as a whole. Again, I think it's more about perspective than anything. The new guy can shoot what he has and the old guy with a 6ppc group gun can shoot ubr without being at a disadvantage. This is especially nice where group matches are either long distances to drive or where a range may only have one or two group matches a year. Last weekend at the UBR Nationals, a 22 PPC pretty much ruled the roost taking 1st and 2nd in custom and 1st, 2nd and 3rd in modified classes. Somehow, some view a level playing field as a bad thing and others view a level playing field, a good thing. Not saying either perspective is right or wrong but I fall into the latter and I like the options that it gives without being penalized.

Shooting a 30 does have its advantages, like going pre loaded and being quite forgiving to tune changes, as well as their barrel life. But yes, they kick a little harder, of course. I'll say this and stop but on a level playing field, where people shoot several different calibers and cartridges, the venerable 6PPC holds its own very well but doesn't dominate. Same can be said about the 30's and even with this year's nationals butt whipping by the 22's, they don't typicall dominate either. There's a healthy mix of cartridges that win in UBR, head to head. I find that most interesting, as when head to head, the cartridge kings of BR are not nearly as dominant as some would think.

was it a 22PPC or a 22PPC Short.?