Savage Palma Won't Group -- Discovery

[Wottchitt]

I have been shooting iron sights and they are shared between another rifle that shoots lights out. Switched them to the other rifle just to make sure. How would you go about checking the bedding? I did use a carbide smoker to blacken the bottom of the action and seated it into the bedding. Looked like it was evenly seated. The barrel torque was something i did not check but will.

 

[Wottchitt]

Try this site. Could not copy and paste so had to do it the slow way............................

Gunsmithing - How to tell if my action needs bedding?

I searched and didnt come up with anything useful. I just got a B&C stock, and to see how much contact I had with the forward bedding area, I put a little grease on the bedding block. Screwed on the action and then took it back off. It looks like I am only getting contact with the bedding...

www.snipershide.com

For a description of how to check bedding, go to the comment by, dinc May 3 2009.

Other Members of this forum might recall a book by Warren Page which describes a method using the finger tips instead of a gauge. I cannot recall the title, Sorry. It must be 50 years ago that I read it and have used that method ever since.
Good Luck

 

[SBS]

check the twist on the barrel , make sure the barrel is tight , makesure the bolt handle isn’t touching the stock

Good advice, and make sure none of the action screws are long enough to touch the bolt. Nothing other than the receiver should touch any part of the bolt. Also, the trigger must not touch anything but the receiver. The crown is also crucial, bullet must exit all of the muzzle at the same instant and undamaged. Talk to the person you bought the rifle from and make sure that whoever installed the barrel did cut at least 1" from the muzzle before crowning it. Otherwise, the last inch or so of the barrel has a larger I.D. than the rest of the barrel (from being lapped) and will not shoot well. If unknown, you can slug it. Something very strange is going on to cause that big of a problem. Always float a Savage action from the bolt handle back (floating the tang was mentioned earlier). Lots of other good advice given that about covers the possibilities.

 

[Hpwrshooter]

All good advice. I ordered a barrel nut tool. Thinking just take the barrel off and reinstall from scratch. Already have go and no go gauges. Will change the firing spring too. I am not against putting another barrel on just dont want to be in the same boat. This barrel is a 1-10 and I have tried both the 2155 Sierras and Berger along with 168 Sierra and Hornady. Tang is floated, bolt handle clears fine and the bedding is glassed and pillared.

 

[C.E.Smith043]

Check the barrel nut. Maybe it's come loose

 

[SBS]

All good advice. I ordered a barrel nut tool. Thinking just take the barrel off and reinstall from scratch. Already have go and no go gauges. Will change the firing spring too. I am not against putting another barrel on just dont want to be in the same boat. This barrel is a 1-10 and I have tried both the 2155 Sierras and Berger along with 168 Sierra and Hornady. Tang is floated, bolt handle clears fine and the bedding is glassed and pillared.

Make sure the bolt nose is not touching the barrel when the bolt face is against the go gauge. Easy to tell when the barrel is off, without even measuring. Also check the action screws for clearance in the pillars, so they are not acting as recoil lugs and not allowing the recoil lug to do this work.

 

[M-61]

I’ve had one ‘bad’ scope over 60+ years. Never forgot it as I sold the rifle. Scope went on another rifle and then finally I realized it was the problem. Crazy change in POI.
Scope swap is easy , maybe not the problem but a simple troubleshoot.

 

[MGYSGT]

When you push a patch down the barrel, do you feel any wide spots. You know, a place where the patch slides very easy vice what it was doing. I have had two barrels just receintly that were giving me the "I just want to pitch this barrel" feeling. Then I noticed the loose spot in the barrel about 3 or so inches from the muzzle. Cut it off and life is good once again.

 

[Wottchitt]

Further to my reply #22 yesterday, Warren Page's book was "The Accurate Rifle". However the chances of you finding one are remote, even in its country of origin.

 

[varget204]

Check Action Screw Torque on all screws & double check scope

 

[Ggmac]

All good advice. I ordered a barrel nut tool. Thinking just take the barrel off and reinstall from scratch. Already have go and no go gauges. Will change the firing spring too. I am not against putting another barrel on just dont want to be in the same boat. This barrel is a 1-10 and I have tried both the 2155 Sierras and Berger along with 168 Sierra and Hornady. Tang is floated, bolt handle clears fine and the bedding is glassed and pillared.

Are you sure about 1-10 . Did you use a tight patch and rod to check ? Don’t trust stamped or scratched specs . We’re human , and can make mistakes or just assume that the 1-10 barrel that was ordered was the one received.
Any loosespots in the barrel ?
Do you have a set of pin gauges ? They can be helpful when checking a barrel for inconsistent shot placement.
Does your target show any yaw ? A good pic of the target and measurements can help .
Cant think of any other gremlins but a loose barrel or a scope base screw touching the barrel , same for front action screw .
Good luck . Please keep use posted .

 

[jelenko]

If the sights aren't loose, I'd get an order going for a new barrel while I was checking out all the potential issues that have been identified.
7 ring to 7 ring is 6 MOA. Other than a loose sight, loose barrel nut or a dramatically slower twist, I'm not sure the other potential causes would produce 6 MOA 'groups'.

At worst, you'd have a back up barrel for later.

 

[DShortt]

If the sights aren't loose, I'd get an order going for a new barrel while I was checking out all the potential issues that have been identified.
7 ring to 7 ring is 6 MOA. Other than a loose sight, loose barrel nut or a dramatically slower twist, I'm not sure the other potential causes would produce 6 MOA 'groups'.

At worst, you'd have a back up barrel for later.

I've seen some crappy barrels, but if a Shilen is shooting 6 MOA I'd be looking at something besides the barrel. It's unusual for a cheap production rifle to shoot over 2 MOA these days. Something is rotten in Denmark.

 

[jelenko]

I've seen some crappy barrels, but if a Shilen is shooting 6 MOA I'd be looking at something besides the barrel. It's unusual for a cheap production rifle to shoot over 2 MOA these days. Something is rotten in Denmark.

OP said it was a Douglas, but it would be a pretty bad barrel to get to 6 MOA.

I did have a barrel that was really worn through out the bore producing around 6 MOA - but the bullets were key holing also.

 

[DShortt]

OP said it was a Douglas, but it would be a pretty bad barrel to get to 6 MOA.

I did have a barrel that was really worn through out the bore producing around 6 MOA - but the bullets were key holing also.

Brain fart apparently. But yes, I'd expect a Douglas to be much better than that, also.

That's not bedding, a bolt handle touching on the stock or a bad barrel unless the crown has significant damage or it's dirty as hell. That's something loose or broken somewhere.

Perhaps I missed it but the OP isn't shooting the cheapest bullets to be found? FMJs or old, garage sale junk can be pretty sketchy but 6 MOA? Even that's hard to imagine.

 

[Old Navy]

Many years ago when I was shooting IHMSA I bought customized center grip XP-100. It was sporting a 15 Shilen 10 twist barrel. It came with 700 Hornady 100 grain BTSPs. Mounted a Burris LER scope, loaded up a few rounds and headed to the range. 2 1/2 to three inch groups and 100 yards. 100 grain Sierra flat base would do 1". The previous poster gave you some good advice about checking the twist.

 

[jelenko]

That's not bedding, a bolt handle touching on the stock or a bad barrel unless the crown has significant damage or it's dirty as hell. That's something loose or broken somewhere.

That's what I'm thinking also.

 

[Hpwrshooter]

So after months of off and on fiddling I think I have it licked After taking the barrel off and making sure the barrel nut was not loose i reinstalled and made sure headspace was good. Still shot terrible. I took the bolt completely apart and when I slid the firing pin out I noticed the pin had a distinct rub mark on it from the tip to about a an eighth inch down it. I chucked the pin up in a drill and sure enough it was bent. I looked at the bolt head with a magnifying glass and could see where the pin was rubbing it. I had another short action 308 so I put that bolt in the Palma rifle, set headspace and im shooting half to 3/4 minute with it. Thanks for all your thoughts. Gonna order a new firing pin and PTG bolt head

 

[hpshooter]

So after months of off and on fiddling I think I have it licked After taking the barrel off and making sure the barrel nut was not loose i reinstalled and made sure headspace was good. Still shot terrible. I took the bolt completely apart and when I slid the firing pin out I noticed the pin had a distinct rub mark on it from the tip to about a an eighth inch down it. I chucked the pin up in a drill and sure enough it was bent. I looked at the bolt head with a magnifying glass and could see where the pin was rubbing it. I had another short action 308 so I put that bolt in the Palma rifle, set headspace and im shooting half to 3/4 minute with it. Thanks for all your thoughts. Gonna order a new firing pin and PTG bolt head

Thanks for the follow up on the solution to the problem. Great info for the resource file.

 

[divingin]

Boss: Thanks for the "TLDR" on the original post.

OP: Glad you found the prob.