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First rifle, .223 or 6BR variant?

I just finished up a .223 repeater and was surprised how little you give up compared to any 6MM cartridge. Not to mention it is much less inexpensive to load and find components for. I also shoot a straight 6BR and a 6GT and find myself shooting the .223 more!
 
Its always great to use .223 components since you have many AR in that caliber, I gotta say my buddy lets me use his Model 70 in Anschutz stock for prone MR & LR matches, 6BRAI, its shoots great. In my limited LR sling match time with it I did manage one clean at 1000 yds.

Fix your issue, just build one of each .... :)
I do like what Urban Rifleman had to say though about his 223 chamber
 
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WillEver said:
I wouldn't have thought it was possible, but I'm more confused than before. lol
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That's because this forum has become less useful than Facebook. Lots of chatter and regurgitation and little understanding of what they speak about. My apologies to the few on here that actually deserve to disagree with this statement.
 
ballisticdaddy said:
I just finished up a .223 repeater and was surprised how little you give up compared to any 6MM cartridge. Not to mention it is much less inexpensive to load and find components for. I also shoot a straight 6BR and a 6GT and find myself shooting the .223 more!
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People really have not explored the 22 bullet options. A straight 223 with the correct free bore shooting '80s and '90s can actually compete straight up with a 6BR shooting 105 somethings. And it actually would be superior if a person were shooting 6 mm bullets that are lighter than 100 something.
 
The only way to make a 6 mm outperform the 22s is to go to a Barnes 112 or a Tubb Dtac or a Berger 112 or 115.

I'm not sure most people actually realize this. They're a huge difference in ballistic coefficient between any of the 105 to 108 offerings and the 112 to 115 offerings.

But I think David Tubb has been trying to say that for years and only a few people listen.
 

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urbanrifleman said:
People really have not explored the 22 bullet options. A straight 223 with the correct free bore shooting '80s and '90s can actually compete straight up with a 6BR shooting 105 somethings. And it actually would be superior if a person were shooting 6 mm bullets that are lighter than 100 something.
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They 223 and 6BR aren’t far apart but the OP is asking about the 223 or a Dasher/BRA either of which will handily out perform the 223. And then there’s case life. The BR size cases go 15-25+ loadings while being pushed near max. If your going to try and push a 223 to compete with a even a straight BR case life will be short. All things the OP should know about to make his decision along with considering the price and availability of 223 brass vs Dasher brass.
 
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swd said:
They 223 and 6BR aren’t far apart but the OP is asking about the 223 or a Dasher/BRA either of which will handily out perform the 223. And then there’s case life. The BR size cases go 15-25+ loadings while being pushed near max. If your going to try and push a 223 to compete with a even a straight BR case life will be short. All things the OP should know about to make his decision along with considering the price and availability of 223 brass vs Dasher brass.
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I have been testing the 223. At least in my barrels which are only 26in I can easily achieve nearly the exact same muzzle velocities as a 6Br.

Personally, I think there's a lot of misinformation about the 223 out there because people are using way too short of a free bore, giving up so much case capacity.

My 223 with the 230 free bore will easily attain 6BR velocities. Not squishing the brass at all. But I think there's a lot of guys shooting really long bullets with really short free bore that are complaining about pressure.

The 6BR ackley only adds about 50 FPS over a 6br. While you could say that is an advantage I don't think it's going to win you a match. The upper node on a typical 6BR ackley is about 2930. The fire forming load at 2880 is what I know a lot of people are shooting. My 223-230 freebore will get you to 2850 but I shoot it at 2750. If you actually do the drift numbers that last little bit of velocity doesn't make that much difference. It certainly not a make or break type difference. Despite all the fuss on the internet that's made over 50 feet per second.

My point is is that so much fuss is made about 6 mm 105 hybrid target bullets and how superior they are for 600 yd shooting (for example), but if you actually look at the ballistic coefficients they're not that great. They should actually be much better. The 90 grain 22 bullets actually have higher ballistic coefficients than the 105 something 6 mm bullets. If people were so concerned about the numbers and "competitive advantage" why aren't they shooting 115 grains 6 mm bullets. That's where the competitive advantage actually lies for that caliber.
 
I
urbanrifleman said:
I have been testing the 223. At least in my barrels which are only 26in I can easily achieve nearly the exact same muzzle velocities as a 6Br.

Personally, I think there's a lot of misinformation about the 223 out there because people are using way too short of a free bore, giving up so much case capacity.

My 223 with the 230 free bore will easily attain 6BR velocities. Not squishing the brass at all. But I think there's a lot of guys shooting really long bullets with really short free bore that are complaining about pressure.

The 6BR ackley only adds about 50 FPS over a 6br. While you could say that is an advantage I don't think it's going to win you a match. The upper node on a typical 6BR ackley is about 2930. The fire forming load at 2880 is what I know a lot of people are shooting. My 223-230 freebore will get you to 2850 but I shoot it at 2750. If you actually do the drift numbers that last little bit of velocity doesn't make that much difference. It certainly not a make or break type difference. Despite all the fuss on the internet that's made over 50 feet per second.

My point is is that so much fuss is made about 6 mm 105 hybrid target bullets and how superior they are for 600 yd shooting (for example), but if you actually look at the ballistic coefficients they're not that great. They should actually be much better. The 90 grain 22 bullets actually have higher ballistic coefficients than the 105 something 6 mm bullets. If people were so concerned about the numbers and "competitive advantage" why aren't they shooting 115 grains 6 mm bullets. That's where the competitive advantage actually lies for that caliber.
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I completely agree on free bore for heavies. It takes a lot to get 90’s in the 2800+ range but even with that much free bore 223 cases don’t live long shooting 90’s at 2850, 3-5 loadings max which I assume is why you shoot them at 2750. My point was a straight BR case will go 15-25+ loadings at 2850 with a 105 class bullet all day with excellent case life. With a good chance of having better accuracy too. So if you have to shoot your 223 at 2750 and you can shoot a Dasher or BRA at 2950 all day long it’s not apples to apples anymore. And again the OP is asking about the 223 and the Dasher or BRA. I probably wouldn’t start the OP off with a max free bore 223 for his first venture into rifle reloading due to limited bullet choice. I’d go more middle of the road on FB or a .104”-.130” fb Dasher with factory brass would also cover a lot ground and be an easy button for the OP. Either cartridge would serve the OP well depending on what his end goal is and the distance he’s going to shoot. If you want to talk the difference between a 223, BR and Dasher for competition, I’m happy too, but start another thread as it’s not what the OP asked about.
 
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I’d suggest you go with the 223 with a reasonable free bore(around 60-70 thousands). With a 7.25 to 8 twist barrel. You will have no problems being able to shoot 50-80 gr bullets. The 88-90 gr are very long and are likely to give you fits. They are not one to start learning with. A 65 free bore will have the bullets at the lands at extended mag length with you AI style mags.

This is the most cost effective, components and barrel life wise.

If you decide to start with the 6mm, I’d suggest the straight 6BR. Go with a 104-108 free bore. You don’t need any longer. I have a 75 in a dasher and every barrel done with it has shot the 105 weight bullets very well. Stick with 7.5-8 twist. If you want the 115 to for sure be stable go with 7.83. The 103-105 shoot so well there is no reason to do the 115.

Some of the free bore mentioned above are ridiculous and will require a long jump for the lighter bullets.

Find a good mentor that will help keep you out of trouble.

Good luck with your learning.

Regards,
Forrest
 
Looks like I'm committed to a bolt gun for the wife's Christmas present.
We have some old battle rifles but mostly AR's at the present.
For F-Class, she's sort of recoil sensitive so the 22BR seems a likely candidate.
Will need brass and dies that I don't have over the cost of the rifle.

Still ain't gonna give up on the 22 NOSGAR though.
Savage receiver and a bolt nose change or a used Valk donor and a barrel change.
Couldn't get a borrowed Lab Radar to work the last couple trips and didn't bring my MagSpeed for muzzle velocities but 90A-tips are moving about 2500fps @ 300yds, and about 2050fps @ 600yds (per ShotMarker).
 
My 223 ISSF is the shortest I would suggest unless you want to shoot varmint bullets.

My 223 230 FB with a Hornady 88 ELDM in a 7 twist is crazy easy to tune.

I think people run into problems with 223 because they are running way too short of freebores. But then I find that is true across the board. A short freebore DOES NOT shoot better.
 
Rocketvapor said:
Looks like I'm committed to a bolt gun for the wife's Christmas present.
We have some old battle rifles but mostly AR's at the present.
For F-Class, she's sort of recoil sensitive so the 22BR seems a likely candidate.
Will need brass and dies that I don't have over the cost of the rifle.
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I brought my skinny 12 year old daughter out with me to our local 1K range at 12yo. She shot my 17lb 6BRX with 109’s at 2985fps. She had no problems with recoil at all and the biggest thing she had shot prior to that was a 22LR. A max weight 6 Dasher at 22lbs would have even less recoil. Just saying..
 
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