Bullet Casters

[Kalitrazescapee]

With all the Cali laws and others to follow so it seems...has anyone tried casting bismuth or tin in larger bore hunting rifles? I have a few family members who will never leave , but most people I talk to feel the non lead bullets do not perform well. I don't think they limit themselves to head/ neck shots , and inside 100 yds a 22 lr will work for deer... according to old family members . If I understand correctly, a tin bullet will only be 60 percent of the weight..
Having used wheel weight lead w maybe a little linotype added , I've never had issues w a 405-410 GR slug. I realize that casters are like trappers...a dying breed...but if if there are any diehards...I hear some are powder coating lead bullets..so what's new?

 

[rockhound78]

You might check over at Castboolits.gunloads.com and see. Don't think I have seen much on people using zinc, bismuth or tin. Tin would get pretty expensive and would be just as cheap to buy monolithic slugs.

 

[Fuj]

Bismuth is never a good idea with it's low melting point.
If you have tin, you'd be nuts to cast bullets with it. At one
point, it hit a scrap metals price at a crazy $150 bucks for
one pound. Sell it and go buy some good bullets. I'm a long
time bullet caster. I generally put up several hundred pounds
of #2 alloy then add Lino depending on the load. Hollow base
wad cutters in low velocity target loads are pure lead with lots
of alox and bees wax.

 

[Knotwild]

Many years ago I found a 50 lbs ingot and cast some .38 semi wadcutter bullets for my Super 38. I could dig the bullets up and they were hardly deformed. Come to find out it was babbet. I hate to know what my pressure's were, but heck, l was only 16.

 

[Bill K]

I am guessing you are in Commie Kalifornia and need lead free bullets. Those materials you mention would be hard to use and might even be somewhat unsafe, in thier total form and amount.
As mentioned, check out a couple of the Bullet casting webs or the cowboy shooting sport webs, for good input.
Best to just buy the sabots and copper/brass bullets and go hunting.
Shoot the old lead cast bullets for plinking and targets.

 

[Rook 6]

I am guessing you are in Commie Kalifornia and need lead free bullets. Those materials you mention would be hard to use and might even be somewhat unsafe, in thier total form and amount.
As mentioned, check out a couple of the Bullet casting webs or the cowboy shooting sport webs, for good input.
Best to just buy the sabots and copper/brass bullets and go hunting.
Shoot the old lead cast bullets for plinking and targets.

^^^This^^^
Not sure what the OP plans to hunt, but I would first doubt there would be adequate accuracy. Also, cast bullets can’t be pushed as hard as jacketed or solid copper before they start fouling the bore. The lack of proper weight and velocity would make the terminal ballistics highly susceptible. Buy solid copper, which is proven, and go hunt. Developing good casting techniques with the right equipment is yet another huge rabbit hole that I won’t go into here. It can be very rewarding, but not in the circumstances described here.

 

[ebb]

Some are casting Zinc, but I am skeptical, the test casters use to sperate zinc wheel weights from lead is to attempt to cut with side cutters lead will cut zinc won't even make a dent. I would think a good plinking bullet could be made with a zinc core and a copper jacket. But I doubt you could ever make it expand. Bill Wilson that owns the company that makes the fine 1911s had opened an ammo plant and says he has seen the writing on the wall, he only makes solid copper bullets. Bubba's Bullets makes some of the most lethal bullets on the planet, they make powdered tungsten bullets. Tungsten weighs 30% more than lead and a similar sixed bullet has much more terminal effect. Whoever figures out a cheap accurate non lead bullet, may be rich soon , but I think a lot of thought has already been put into the subject and there may be no easy cheap, accurate nonlead bullet. Which means the antigun people pushing all of this will price many of us out of the realm of shooters and into collectors.

 

[DShortt]

^^^This^^^
Not sure what the OP plans to hunt, but I would first doubt there would be adequate accuracy. Also, cast bullets can’t be pushed as hard as jacketed or solid copper before they start fouling the bore. The lack of proper weight and velocity would make the terminal ballistics highly susceptible. Buy solid copper, which is proven, and go hunt. Developing good casting techniques with the right equipment is yet another huge rabbit hole that I won’t go into here. It can be very rewarding, but not in the circumstances described here.

There's a whole bunch of inaccurate information in here. You don't like cast lead bullets? That's fine. But please don't spread misinformation.

 

[brokeasajoke]

Here's one on zinc. There is some arguing of defacing pennies.

Casting with Zinc...Pennies

Hi all, back from a lengthy hiatus. I've been reading a bit lately about people starting to cast with zinc to create bullets that can be run at jacketed speeds and do not need gas checks. An application I am looking at specifically is casting for 8.6 Blackout to make some cast supers that...

castboolits.gunloads.com

 

[Rook 6]

There's a whole bunch of inaccurate information in here. You don't like cast lead bullets? That's fine. But please don't spread misinformation.

School me. Done a lot of casting, especially for long distance accuracy in competition over the years. You did read and comprehend we are talking about casting bullets without lead correct?

 

[DShortt]

Tell me where I’m wrong. I’ll address each point by point.

OK. High velocity does not cause bore fouling. A barrel twist rate that is too high for the alloy, too soft an alloy, incorrect fit to the bore, the need for a gas check, incorrect lube choice or a combination of those cause lead fouling. Powder coating can mitigate those problems.

Accuracy issues are either caused by improper fitment of the bullet to the throat/bore, a rate of twist that is incorrect for the chosen bullet, a incorrect choice of alloy or the caster needs to work on their casting techniques and/or choice of alloy. Cast bullets can be shot quite accurately if the shooter uses correct techniques.

Cast lead bullets are heavier by length than either jacketed bullets or particularly copper solids. There is no issue with terminal performance.

Casting lead bullets is indeed a skill. I would agree that if the op believes he can use any alloy at hand, melt it, cast some bullets and go hunting successfully, that's not going to happen. However, there are several claims in your post that are simply incorrect. I've been at it for 25 years and I know better and have demonstrated it on the range and in the field.

 

[Rook 6]

OK. High velocity does not cause bore fouling. A barrel twist rate that is too high for the alloy, too soft an alloy, incorrect fit to the bore, the need for a gas check, incorrect lube choice or a combination of those cause lead fouling. Powder coating can mitigate those problems.

Accuracy issues are either caused by improper fitment of the bullet to the throat/bore, a rate of twist that is incorrect for the chosen bullet, a incorrect choice of alloy or the caster needs to work on their casting techniques and/or choice of alloy. Cast bullets can be shot quite accurately if the shooter uses correct techniques.

Cast lead bullets are heavier by length than either jacketed bullets or particularly copper solids. There is no issue with terminal performance.

Casting lead bullets is indeed a skill. I would agree that if the op believes he can use any alloy at hand, melt it, cast some bullets and go hunting successfully, that's not going to happen. However, there are several claims in your post that are simply incorrect. I've been at it for 25 years and I know better and have demonstrated it on the range and in the field.

Apologies to the OP for the hijack. I would be happy to discuss this offline. I agree with everything you are saying with some some minuscule caveats I’ve learned based on my 35 plus years of a casting…. But not really the point here.

The points about accuracy and terminal performance I made ASSUME the usage of non-lead components. All of those already mentioned, save tungsten and copper, don’t have anything close to the density of lead. I personally have never used anything but lead alloys and copper for competition and hunting. So my comments about the terminal performance and useful accuracy of components, such as bismuth and tin as already mentioned, are assumed. But the assumptions SEEM reasonable based on the documented experience of others in various scenarios. I personally have never seen or heard of any of these components other than lead and copper being used in rifle competition or for big game hunting, but would happily defer to examples.

Out of respect for the OP, I will simply request that if your practical experience on the range and in the field is with a bigger bore hunting rifle, using bullet components other than lead (or copper), as was originally inquired by the OP, would appreciate your sharing of those results from an accuracy and terminal performance perspective. I for one would find that insightful.

Cheers

 

[DShortt]

Apologies to the OP for the hijack. I would be happy to discuss this offline. I agree with everything you are saying with some some minuscule caveats I’ve learned based on my 35 plus years of a casting…. But not really the point here.

The points about accuracy and terminal performance I made ASSUME the usage of non-lead components. All of those already mentioned, save tungsten and copper, don’t have anything close to the density of lead. I personally have never used anything but lead alloys and copper for competition and hunting. So my comments about the terminal performance and useful accuracy of components, such as bismuth and tin as already mentioned, are assumed. But the assumptions SEEM reasonable based on the documented experience of others in various scenarios. I personally have never seen or heard of any of these components other than lead and copper being used in rifle competition or for big game hunting, but would happily defer to examples.

Out of respect for the OP, I will simply request that if your practical experience on the range and in the field is with a bigger bore hunting rifle, using bullet components other than lead (or copper), as was originally inquired by the OP, would appreciate your sharing of those results from an accuracy and terminal performance perspective. I for one would find that insightful.

Cheers

I've not experimented with any alloys that aren't primarily lead so I cannot comment on those. The reason I had issue with your first post was there was no mention of anything apart from lead alloys so I read them as blanket statements/comments and there are already many misunderstandings regarding lead bullet casting. My concern was someone would read those remarks and lacking context form inaccurate opinions.
Sounds like our thinking is largely the same just missing proper context. Thanks for the clarification.

 

[Rook 6]

I've not experimented with any alloys that aren't primarily lead so I cannot comment on those. The reason I had issue with your first post was there was no mention of anything apart from lead alloys so I read them as blanket statements/comments and there are already many misunderstandings regarding lead bullet casting. My concern was someone would read those remarks and lacking context form inaccurate opinions.
Sounds like our thinking is largely the same just missing proper context. Thanks for the clarification.

I can see how that’s possible. I should have been more specific in my initial reply. Apologies for the churn Sir!

 

[Fuj]

OK. High velocity does not cause bore fouling....... I've been at it for 25 years and I know better and have demonstrated it on the range and in the field.

Of course your assuming a gas check is used. There needs to be a
separation of fact between the two bullet base methods. I've noted
that some have been claiming years of experience.....I've been at it
for over 50 years, and a good stretch of it in competition. Sometimes
I just chuckle and go for my next cup of coffee......

 

[DShortt]

Of course your assuming a gas check is used. There needs to be a
separation of fact between the two bullet base methods. I've noted
that some have been claiming years of experience.....I've been at it
for over 50 years, and a good stretch of it in competition. Sometimes
I just chuckle and go for my next cup of coffee......

I did note the need for a gas check if you read the entire post, so no assumptions were made Sir.

 

[DShortt]

School me. Done a lot of casting, especially for long distance accuracy in competition over the years. You did read and comprehend we are talking about casting bullets without lead correct?

I noticed you reworded you original post which I quoted in my post #11. Any particular reason you did that?

"You can fool some of the people some of the time......"

 

[Rook 6]

I noticed you reworded you original post which I quoted in my post #11. Any particular reason you did that?

"You can fool some of the people some of the time......"

Hello again. Just seemed like a short and abrupt response. Intent was the same, just want it to come across constructive.

 

[DShortt]

Hello again. Just seemed like a short and abrupt response. Intent was the same, just want it to come across constructive.

I think it would have been appropriate to leave your original post alone and noted an edit at a later time.

That's fine. I know everything I need to know at this point.

 

[Kalitrazescapee]

I didn't know that I was starting a fire...
For the record...I've been casting since 1976 an mostly pistol and 45 cal. I've also cast pure/ dead soft for 50-54 cal muzzleloader maxi slugs.
I never used gas checks in .44mag,.45 acp and colt, or in 45-70 and w heat treated used just shy of an Elmer Keith load..
I'm in Kentucky but have family in kalitràz and was looking for a way to make a better bullet than the factory loads they complain about.. there are those experimenting with bismuth and a company in kalitràz is selling an alloy for those who are trying..if they were legal for big game they could use an air rifle.... they're exempt and can use lead..but you need to carry a printout to show the Kali Nazis in their blue trucks.. I now load bp/ cowboy loads in pistol and trapdoor loads for the rifles... don't need anything to rattle my teeth anymore...if I was still in kalitràz, I'd use lead free solder with a lr or other case full of tungsten shot soldered in..in an undersized mold paper patched up to bore dia and adapt from there..
I just read the thread of the smokeless muzzleloader gang .. gentleman we will have new boundaries and obstacles to cross in the future...we just need to think about what we are doing.. I'll use a flintlock and my own bullets before I become completely dependent on outsiders....it's bad enough reloading now.