Heretical SAKO butchery . . .

[RGRobinett]

I recently acquired a very nice, decent shooting SAKO L461, 222Mag - except for the 4#6Oz trigger, all very rosy. So, before I break the [never touched] action screws, to tear into the trigger, I'm requesting some guidance. Looking over the SAKO details (drawing and instructions) states that the trigger is adjustable from 1.5 to 2.0 kilos, or about 3.3# - 4.4# - the latter number being close to what an old trigger-pull gauge displays (4#-4Oz.).

My initial thought is to replace the pull weight spring with a lighter and longer spring which will still provide enough pressure to prevent de-cocking on bolt close. It seems logical that if the sear engagement is left untouched, this would produce a more desirable pull weight: I'd like to achieve 1#, as that is where all of my hunting rifles "break". Heretically, I bought this SAKO to shoot, not to ooogle . . . SAKO trigger experience/advice welcome!! Only as a last resort, will I go to an aftermarket trigger. How light will the SAKO trigger go and still provide safe reliability?

Preliminary testing (only two powders and five pieces of necked-up and reformed .204 Ruger brass), to check it out the, "as is", OLD factory bedding, the rifle displays a tendency to shoot fairly well. So far, 45 shots, with two powders, in every group, no matter the case rotation, the first shot has gone HIGH, with the remainder being respectable. That could be me wrestling the 4++ pound trigger. Attached last two 100 Yd., 5-shot groups using CFE-223 - it was handy . . . The Weihraugh HW52 group was via .22Hornet, which, for that type of rifle, shows some promise.

 

[ben-o]

I recently finished a project based on a Sako 579 Forester. Initially, the trigger was at about 3.5 lbs, but very crisp. This would have been acceptable for my standards. We replaced the firing pin spring with a stronger one, which increased the pull weight a little more. I felt like 4 lbs was ok, but at that level, the safety would not consistently engage. I had to increase the pull weight even more to make the safety work.

I’m sure there are gunsmiths who could make the stock trigger work, but a Timney was a better option for me. It did require opening up the wood inletting, so maybe it’s not the best option for an original condition collectible rifle. I did not need to remove any metal, though. Mine is set around 2 1/4 lbs. I’m not sure if the timney will go down to 1 lb, but 1.5 lbs is probably realistic

 

[RGRobinett]

Thank you, ben-o. Thought I'd get more experiences/recommendations.
This afternoon, beteeen rain showers, I added, "mo powda" and shot this 5-shot group - the additional
0.5Gr. (about 1.7% increase) may be, "the ticket", or, close to it . . . or, maybe it's THE bill-fold group.There are still no excessive pressure symptoms. Following the initial fire-forming, with Lt-32, the .200" DATUM diameter has remained at .3763" for 7 more firings. I still believe that the 4# plus trigger is causing some group enlargement. That said, for an old factory rifle, if this proves reliably repeatable, it's acceptable. RG

Ooops - Win. small rifle primer - not WSM.

 

[jepp2]

SAKO trigger experience/advice welcome!!

My suggestion is to buy a Timney and have them set it at the weight you want (can go as low as 1.5 pounds).

 

[AlNyhus]

Randy, you've got the little 'Sock-O' shooting well! I haven't done any serious tweaks to those A series factory triggers...just the factory target triggers. My experience is that very, very few Sako enthusiasts venture far from what came out of Rhimakki. Swerving out of the Sako driving lane and crossing the center line to pass quickly gets you labeled as a heretic. Which, of course, is nothing new to either of us.

My little Interarms Mini Mark X 223 is basically a L461 with a Mauser bolt shroud and uses the same style trigger as your L461. With some careful stoning and a longer/lighter respringing (as you brought up) it's right at 1.5 lbs. now.

Used Canjars for the A series actions pop up pretty regularly on Sako Collectors site. You might score one with the set tab feature...a real whiplash back in time. Kevin Gullette might be another source as he pretty savvy on these.

Good shootin' -Al

 

[ben-o]

The other issue with the Timney trigger is that it might not sit in the trigger guard in the same place as the factory trigger. I had to grind a little off the end of the trigger blade to make it fit. Timney’s instructions mention that this might be required.

It’s not a big deal, but if you go with the Timney keep in mind it’s not exactly a quick and easy drop in job.

 

[gunsandgunsmithing]

I've been reluctant to reply because I'm sure there are others better qualified and familiar with Sako triggers, but ime, they are about as good as factory triggers get and can be made very good. I don't want to get into the details because I'm sure there are others much better with them. Hopefully someone will offer details and their methods. Jard makes a good replacement for them, I think but I'm not sure what all they fit. But like I said, the few factory ones that I've worked with could be made quite good.

 

[Will Henry]

The Sako trigger is a little different in that the sear moves straight up and down, rather than pivoting like others do. The contact point between the sear and the trigger piece is slightly behind the center of the trigger pivot pin, as it must be. The angle on sear, where it engages the cocking piece, is quite shallow and this produces a fair load on the sear/ trigger contact. Now, because the contact is behind center on the pin, the trigger is having to fight the sear in order to disengage. In other words, the trigger may actually have to cam the sear up a little to disengage. The top of the trigger, where it contacts the sear, is cut at a bit of an angle to eliminate this; so the sear is stationary as the trigger is pulled. This is a difficult angle to get just right. Too flat and the trigger is heavy. Too much angle and the striker will follow down. Ideally, you should try to get the trigger so that it pulls about 1 1/2 pounds, with the spring out of play. To check this, hold the trigger lever forward as you cock the rifle. Then check it with your gauge. If it pulls 3 pounds with no spring, you'll never be able to get under about 3 3/4 pounds, without some honing.
A quick and easy, and surprisingly effective, way to improve a Sako trigger is to put a dab of JB compound at the contact point, then do about a thirty round dryfire session. Clean it up well, and you should see a noticeable improvement. WH

 

[swd]

I’ve done a few Sako triggers. Like Will said above ^ getting the angle right is key. The mechanical weight, on any trigger, has to be less than your desired pull weight. With a bit of stone/diamond lap and spring work I’ve never had problem getting a finished Sako trigger somewhere in the 1-1.5lb range. You do have to be very careful with the safety. It’s easy to get a great pull but a safety that doesn’t work correctly. And when done correctly they break very nicely! A well done factory trigger will probably get you a nicer pull than a Timney.

 

[RGRobinett]

Thank you, Al,Mike, Will Henry, and SWD - having fired a few more confirmation groups, it's time to tear the SAKO apart and begin working on the trigger - Al can (I hope ) support the notion that yours truly isn't especially mechanically incompetent . . . RG
Here are the last pair of verification groups, using two different bullet weights, but from the same (Rorschach) point-up die, and different brass. BTW, the .247 Nk bushing did not size the Nosler brass, as it measures .247, "right out of the bag", but did help make it round - NK walls are about 0.0007" thinner than the re-formed Rem. .204R brass.

 

[RGRobinett]

The Sako trigger is a little different in that the sear moves straight up and down, rather than pivoting like others do. The contact point between the sear and the trigger piece is slightly behind the center of the trigger pivot pin, as it must be. The angle on sear, where it engages the cocking piece, is quite shallow and this produces a fair load on the sear/ trigger contact. Now, because the contact is behind center on the pin, the trigger is having to fight the sear in order to disengage. In other words, the trigger may actually have to cam the sear up a little to disengage. The top of the trigger, where it contacts the sear, is cut at a bit of an angle to eliminate this; so the sear is stationary as the trigger is pulled. This is a difficult angle to get just right. Too flat and the trigger is heavy. Too much angle and the striker will follow down. Ideally, you should try to get the trigger so that it pulls about 1 1/2 pounds, with the spring out of play. To check this, hold the trigger lever forward as you cock the rifle. Then check it with your gauge. If it pulls 3 pounds with no spring, you'll never be able to get under about 3 3/4 pounds, without some honing.
A quick and easy, and surprisingly effective, way to improve a Sako trigger is to put a dab of JB compound at the contact point, then do about a thirty round dryfire session. Clean it up well, and you should see a noticeable improvement. WH

Thank you, Will Henry - very useful info! I must confess to having never heard/known that one cannot get a trigger pull weight lower than the pull weight sans the spring. So, I learned something. I have had good luck honing/stoning to remove burrs and sharpen the edges, eliminating creep, along with weaker/longer spring(s) to lower the pull weight. BTW, though all of my hunting rifles have <1# triggers, I have never experienced an accidental discharge. RG

 

[Will Henry]

A factory Sako can maybe be tuned to a pound, but it will be a fussy pound. The geometry is just wrong.
I know you are well experienced in these matters, but I try to explain things so everyone gets it.
If you could find an old Canjar trigger for a Sako, you would be a happy man. WH

 

[swd]

I have 2 Sako’s myself. One is 3/4lb and the other about 1.5lbs. Nothing fussy about either. The 1.5lb took very little work to get there. But they are all individuals too as far as how much work they take to get there..

 

[Kracken McGraw]

The other issue with the Timney trigger is that it might not sit in the trigger guard in the same place as the factory trigger. I had to grind a little off the end of the trigger blade to make it fit. Timney’s instructions mention that this might be required.

It’s not a big deal, but if you go with the Timney keep in mind it’s not exactly a quick and easy drop in job.

I ran into all of this putting a Timney in a really early 60’s l-579 .243. Quite a bit wood removal and grinding and shaping of trigger it self to get away from guard.

 

[AlNyhus]

Al can (I hope ) support the notion that yours truly isn't especially mechanically incompetent . . . RG

Hey....anyone that can tear into a Savage 99 trigger the way you did and start cutting and reshaping is a Steeley Eyed Trigger Man in my book! -Al

 

[RGRobinett]

Disassembled the SAKO L461, and was somewhat surprised when, upon loosening the front receiver screw, the stock fore-end moved visibly away from the barrel - according to the dial indicator, to the tune of 0.040"!
This helps explain the persistent vertical - even with "acceptable" groups size, vertical was always the biggest measurement.

That said, Will Henry's advice was put to use - again, thank you, Will! With the trigger pull-weight screw removed, the bolt never failed to cock - not even without applying forward pressure. Following some fooling around with trying to create failure to cock, or, firing when activating the safety, the trigger pull-weight was gauged using a Lyman electronic tool. The captions on the accompanying pic should explain.

I rummaged through the collection of "back-up" and salvaged springs, finally finding one of about the length needed (about 0.310" long), and reassembled the trigger - the lighter/longer spring added slightly over one ounce to the pull, and provided fully functional trigger and safety operation. Will's advice saved me from tearing further into the trigger, as the current after-market triggers are rated for 1#/8Oz., or greater.

On this rifle, presuming that, upon reassembly, it still shoots about 1/2 Min. groups, especially following a reduction from 4#/4Oz. to 1#/11.1Oz., the current average is livable. Now, the bedding is a different story . . . RG

 

[RGRobinett]

Following reassembly of the SAKO .222 Mag, I fired the top 5-shot group - as usual, the initial shot was HIGH - on both groups, "double grouping" is obvious.

That was the 11th firing of the 5 Remington cases formed from .204Ruger - this barrel has tended to shoot the first cold/clean shot a little higher than subsequent shots, and also, across a two grain charge-weight range, has produced consistent vertical, albeit, for an old factory rifle, near respectable grouping. One must admit that the barrel shows potential to shoot notably better. BTW it's a 12-groove BOFORS STEEL barrel.

The next move will be to shim the metal:stock interface to reduce, or, eliminate the stress which is causing the stock to flex when the front receiver screw is manipulated. Should the shimming substantially reduce the vertical stringing, then, some pillars and epoxy will come into play . . . the following pair of pics will show where the rabbit hole leads - gotta get rid of that pesky vertical. I'm guessing that will be an obtainable goal - that last 5-shots is nearing semi-respectable . . .
RG

 

[Will Henry]

Back in the early 1970's my friend and mentor, Art Bourne, shot a Sako actioned 222 Rem Mag as his LV rifle. His wore a Hart barrel, and a pretty fancy walnut stock he had made. The rifle shot quite well, for the time, but was not a real BR rifle, of course. I recall the occasional sub-quarter group, but aggs were usually high 3's, low 4's. It was a fine varmint rifle.
About the same time, Dad got a 579 Varminter, in 308, which he used as his hunter class rifle. That rifle produced a whole bunch of sub .2 groups; for four shots (factory barrel and stock). He never could keep it together for five. He may have been concussed; the recoil was significant! At that time, it was not uncommon to see Sako actions on the line. Alex Bulman used one on his unlimited rifle, another 308. Dad used one on his unlimited gun as well. Both used Canjar triggers.
My apology for wandering off the path! WH

 

[RGRobinett]

Back in the early 1970's my friend and mentor, Art Bourne, shot a Sako actioned 222 Rem Mag as his LV rifle. His wore a Hart barrel, and a pretty fancy walnut stock he had made. The rifle shot quite well, for the time, but was not a real BR rifle, of course. I recall the occasional sub-quarter group, but aggs were usually high 3's, low 4's. It was a fine varmint rifle.
About the same time, Dad got a 579 Varminter, in 308, which he used as his hunter class rifle. That rifle produced a whole bunch of sub .2 groups; for four shots (factory barrel and stock). He never could keep it together for five. He may have been concussed; the recoil was significant! At that time, it was not uncommon to see Sako actions on the line. Alex Bulman used one on his unlimited rifle, another 308. Dad used one on his unlimited gun as well. Both used Canjar triggers.
My apology for wandering off the path! WH

WH, thank you for contributing. Yes, on average, without further tinkering, this rifle shoots well enough to be a good varmint slayer - especially if it would average close to that last group with the 47.0 Gr. FB, or, reliably <.4".
For an OLD factory barrel, it exceeds my expectation - it's just that, "good is never good enough" has haunted my rifle shootin' since my earliest outings with my Dad.
I was surprised that nearly 60% trigger pull-weight reduction didn't result in smaller groups - it certainly makes for notably easier delivery!
The real witch hunt has been in getting consistently pleasing groups via a pair of [falling-block] .22 Hornets: HW52 (Weihrauch); Winchester (Miroku) 1885 Low-wall - I'm still spend time exploring in that deep hole . . . RG

 

[RGRobinett]

Though the wind is a little more challenging today, shimming the stock on the Sako L461 shouts, "It's PILLAR time!" The pic captions, and pervious posts should explain . . . Interestingly, though, following F-F, the Remington .204 Ruger brass shoots quite well, the Nosler .222 Rem. Mag. brass, even following F-F, is proving more "ho-hummerish" . . . more investigation in order. Perhaps this one is THE bill-fold group - next couple of days will quantify the average.. RG

P.S. yeah, I'm cheap - taped-up targets from last 200 Yd. BR tournament, including the cursory frustrated, "double-tap" - those 9's are killers.