Who does TL3 ignition timing?

[Clancy]

I am really stuck on the TL3 actions and want to use one on my next build. I have always used jewel triggers with adequate pin fall but with their recent problems and lack of available parts for repairs or replacements, I’m forced to look elsewhere, most likely a Bix Competition.

I’d like to send my trigger and receiver to someone competent and have the cocking ramp recut and related work perform before barreling this one.

Thanks

Clancy

 

[padom]

I have 6 TL3's, all with Bix N Andy TacSport Pro 2 Stage triggers. I havent needed to have a single thing done to my actions. Bix has different sears for their trigger with a chart based off measurement of the action on what sear to use. All Zermatt/Bighorn TL3's require the low sear..

Hit up Bullet Central, order the BNA trigger with the low sear and even have them tune the trigger to the pull weight you want.... their guy in house is magical at tuning these things. I've never been able to tune them myself like they do in house....

 

[Clancy]

I have 6 TL3's, all with Bix N Andy TacSport Pro 2 Stage triggers. I havent needed to have a single thing done to my actions. Bix has different sears for their trigger with a chart based off measurement of the action on what sear to use. All Zermatt/Bighorn TL3's require the low sear..

Hit up Bullet Central, order the BNA trigger with the low sear and even have them tune the trigger to the pull weight you want.... their guy in house is magical at tuning these things. I've never been able to tune them myself like they do in house....

That makes me feel better. I couldn’t get one with a trigger tech to shoot to my liking. Too many fliers and overall inconsistent. Turns out I had lost about .035 of fall with that trigger. I just expect teen groups with a BR and couldn’t get there with that setup.

I’ll try a Bix Competition or Pro before hacking on the action.

 

[Clancy]

@padom how much pin fall are you getting?

 

[One Eye Pete]

For what its worth when I installed Triggertech Diamond trigger in my TL3 long action I was only getting 0.175 in firing pin fall. I checked my buddies Bighorn TL3 short action and his was getting 0.2 in. pin fall. I was not getting good groups and was having trouble getting a good ES and an SD below 12. I did not get misfires with the Bighorn and I do not actually know if the poor groups ES & SD were caused by the lack of firing pin fall. Normally a remington style action requires 0.24 in firing pin fall however the Bighorn has a smaller firing pin diameter than a normal remington. When I had only 0.20 in. of firing pin travel on my Kelbly Atlas I was getting misfires, however this was quickly corrected with the proper trigger hanger (Kelblys service is absolutely first class).
I did want to eliminate this as a possible problem on the TL3 so I cut the cocking ramp on the Bighorn bolt deeper (a scary undertaking for someone with my machining skills) it took a lot of guts and very careful stoning & polishing. To get the proper timing I also had to shorten the firing pin to be able to take advantage of the deeper cocking ramp. On a Bighorn the firing pin is threaded into the cocking piece and secured with set screws so with very slight machining to the cocking piece I was able to thread it deeper into the cocking piece and thus effectively shorten it. I now have 0.242 firing pin fall and very little cock on close using the Triggertech trigger. I cant say that the cocking ramp job is absolutely perfect however the action is still as smooth as silk with very easy bolt lift and it is definitely shooting better.

 

[padom]

I don't know I'd have to measure but I've never had any accuracy issues or SD issues. But I only have experience with BNA TacSport Pro's with the correctly sized low sear (they come with a medium sear)...

I know of too many issues with TT I've stayed away from them....

https://www.bulletcentral.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/03/tacsport_sear_compatibility_chart.jpg

 

[Clancy]

Thanks @padom

 

[WSnyder]

I have found when comparing a Triggertech to a BnA Tac Sport/Tac Sport Pro the sears will have about .020” difference as to pin fall between the two. The BnA will give ~.020” more pin fall than a TT. This is across the board with different models of TT’s.

 

[LVLAaron]

I have found when comparing a Triggertech to a BnA Tac Sport/Tac Sport Pro the sears will have about .020” difference as to pin fall between the two. The BnA will give ~.020” more pin fall than a TT. This is across the board with different models of TT’s.

Interesting. I have a couple guns that are real shooters with TT Diamonds. I was going through my shop drawers today and found a bix tac sport I forgot about... I'll have to give it a try!

 

[WSnyder]

I'll have to give it a try!

Curious to see what you get. I do like the TT's but on some actions they leave pin fall just a little short of where I might want it. They might be fine but......

 

[LVLAaron]

On my Stiller Tac 30,

The Trigger Tech Diamond gave me ~232 thou of pin fall

Bix tac sport gave 248.

16 thou more fall with the bix. Those are rough measurements. I didn't set up a dial indicator... just a set of calipers.

 

[WSnyder]

I tested a new Diamond on a Defiance yesterday to a Tac Sport Pro and had ~.016" more with the TSP over the Diamond.

 

[LVLAaron]

Will be interesting to see what difference it makes for the gun. I favor the feel of the TT for a "tactical" type rifle.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

I dont think you will get enough pin fall out of them without work. For top level accuracy I think you will need to have the work done. There are better options out there imo.

 

[Clancy]

I dont think you will get enough pin fall out of them without work. For top level accuracy I think you will need to have the work done. There are better options out there imo.

Say a guy wanted you to do one? Just the action work, nothing else. Shoot me a dm if you can work it in.

 

[WSnyder]

Just to add info: I measured pin fall on a TL3 a few weeks ago with a Tac Sport Pro. My notes say ~.205”

 

[G7BC]

Bighorn ( Zermatt) will send you a cocking piece and you can set the amount of cock on close vs. cock on open and pin fall you want. just get with Ray... ray@zermattarms.com

 

[JMeadows]

For what its worth when I installed Triggertech Diamond trigger in my TL3 long action I was only getting 0.175 in firing pin fall. I checked my buddies Bighorn TL3 short action and his was getting 0.2 in. pin fall. I was not getting good groups and was having trouble getting a good ES and an SD below 12. I did not get misfires with the Bighorn and I do not actually know if the poor groups ES & SD were caused by the lack of firing pin fall. Normally a remington style action requires 0.24 in firing pin fall however the Bighorn has a smaller firing pin diameter than a normal remington. When I had only 0.20 in. of firing pin travel on my Kelbly Atlas I was getting misfires, however this was quickly corrected with the proper trigger hanger (Kelblys service is absolutely first class).
I did want to eliminate this as a possible problem on the TL3 so I cut the cocking ramp on the Bighorn bolt deeper (a scary undertaking for someone with my machining skills) it took a lot of guts and very careful stoning & polishing. To get the proper timing I also had to shorten the firing pin to be able to take advantage of the deeper cocking ramp. On a Bighorn the firing pin is threaded into the cocking piece and secured with set screws so with very slight machining to the cocking piece I was able to thread it deeper into the cocking piece and thus effectively shorten it. I now have 0.242 firing pin fall and very little cock on close using the Triggertech trigger. I cant say that the cocking ramp job is absolutely perfect however the action is still as smooth as silk with very easy bolt lift and it is definitely shooting better.

I don't understand having to shorten the firing pin. I also did this to my tl3 but didn't have to shorten firing pin. The firing pin should bottom out on back of removable bolt head not on cocking ramp. I'm asking because I want to make sure I didn't miss anything. BTW I loaded 40 rounds before doing anything. Shot first 20 before modification and that had ES of 30+ with SD of 13 @ 2725. After mod to fire control with .248 pin fall I shot the remaining ammo and ES of 11 with SD of 4 @2775. Ammo got 50fps faster.

 

[One Eye Pete]

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I don't understand having to shorten the firing pin. I also did this to my tl3 but didn't have to shorten firing pin. The firing pin should bottom out on back of removable bolt head not on cocking ramp. I'm asking because I want to make sure I didn't miss anything. BTW I loaded 40 rounds before doing anything. Shot first 20 before modification and that had ES of 30+ with SD of 13 @ 2725. After mod to fire control with .248 pin fall I shot the remaining ammo and ES of 11 with SD of 4 @2775. Ammo got 50fps faster.

It’s been a while since I modified my action (and I don’t do this all the time) but if I remember correctly when I cut the cocking ramp deeper without shortening the firing pin, the firing pin would bottom out on the bolthead way before the cocking piece hit the bottom of the cocking ramp, it just had more clearance between the cocking piece and the bottom of the ramp. (with the same length firing pin and the trigger in the same place it couldn’t take advantage of the deeper cocking ramp). Shortening the firing pin allowed the firing pin to move further forward (more pin fall) and the cocking piece would go deeper into the cocking ramp before the stop on the firing pin hit the bolt head. With the deeper cocking ramp you still need to maintain some clearance between the cocking piece and the cocking ramp when the firing pin stop hits the bolt head.
If the modification you made is working and you have .248 pin fall without having the cocking piece bottom out on the bottom of the cocking ramp then you are In good shape. The TL3 would be the perfect action if it had a deeper cocking ramp and a trigger hanger so you could adjust the trigger and get .24 firing pin fall without any cock on close.