Arbor neck sizing die

[PRR1957]

I've been considering a arbor neck sizing die for loading 308 Win. using a Redding bushing die. The cartridge cases are PPU which the necks thickness can vary to +.004". I can feel a difference when seating bullets as I didn't turn the case necks.

I'll probably turn the necks, but would like to try a arbor neck die after resize the cartridge case in the bushing die. Can I get a list of all the manufacturers of arbor neck sizing die, as I've found only two companies who offer this type of die.

Thanks to whoever here responds.

 

[mikecr]

Are you talking about a hand die, used with an arbor press?
Or a mandrel die?

 

[kiwijohn]

As said above you have 4 thou case neck wall variation, squeeze that down in a neck bush and you will have.....ummm 4 thou variation. A mandrel should make for a better approach.

 

[NZ_Fclass]

You really should full length size -and shoulder bump. I neck turn 308, as I have a tight neck chamber. I full length size, Forster die, with the expander taken out, then a 308 mandrel, a Wilson, then neck turn. The case will fit the mandrel/pilot of the neck turning device better if sized first. Recheck neck tension with a guage or the 308 mandrel again, prime and load. I do most of my loading on a Dillon 550B, so FL size and the neck mandrel are on the press.

 

[DaveTooley]

Reading comprehension or lack of just amazes me.

 

[RickyK]

Reading comprehension or lack of just amazes me.

AGREE

 

[BoydAllen]

If you are dealing with unturned necks, you might want to consider taking the bushing out of your FL die, which converts it to a body die, and sizing your necks with a Lee Collet die. Using a bushing for this application really needs to be combined with some sort of expanding. My experience is that an expander ball that only does a thousandth or two of work does not disturb concentricity, particularly if something like Imperial dry lube is used as part of the process. You can dip the necks, then apply the lube to the outside of the case.

 

[Uncle Ed]

Redding-Reloading

Concentricity Problems​

a.k.a Neck Runout With Bottleneck Cases

We have conducted many tests over the years on the various factors contributing to concentricity problems with bottleneck cases. We have repeatedly found a definite correlation between the uniformity of the brass (or lack of it) and the resulting concentricity of the neck to the body of the case.

An interesting experiment also revealed that neck turning of brass that was intentionally sorted as non-uniform, showed little or no concentricity improvement when used in standard S.A.A.M.I. spec chambers. Conversely brass that was sorted and selected for uniformity remained uniform and concentric with or without a neck turning operation

To create precision reloads, you must start with cases of good quality. They should all be from the same manufacturer and lot number. A good measure of case quality is how uniform the neck wall thickness is. Cases with uniform neck wall thickness, will be of uniform thickness all the way to the base. This is important for accuracy, as the cases will expand uniformly upon firing, and contract uniformly when sized. Neck turning helps, but it's only a partial cure, as you can't turn the case wall all the way to the base. The Redding Case Neck Gauge is the preferred instrument for checking neck wall thickness and uniformity. Also note that the concentricity of a fired case only indicates how concentric your firearm's chamber is. It provides you with little or no information on the quality of the cases you're using.

 

[RegionRat]

A Wilson arbor press die looks like this and has no threads to use with a tradition reloading press.


This die is used with an arbor press and accepts standard neck bushings, but as you can see does not work with a traditional reloading press which requires 7/8-14 threads.

This method does not correct for neck wall thickness issues. It does give a little better tactile feedback in terms of torque or force on the press handle, but if you are having an issue with sizing using a traditional neck bushing die this method is really not that different.

 

[PRR1957]

Some here get what I'm asking. Some don't.

I'm asking for a die that is screwed into the press, that has an arbor in it, of which you run the cartridge up into it to resize the inside diameter of the neck. This in my case will obviously be a separate die and I will use after I run the cartridge through my Reading Full Length Neck Bushing die. I have three bushings, .336, .337, .338. I also have some smaller ID bushing for turn necks. This not my first rodeo with the 308 Winchester.

I'm using a RCBS Partner press for bullet seating, as it has a low compound leverage for a more tactile feel when, especially when first starting the bullet seating. I can feel variations in the seating force.

My other consideration is purchasing the Redding Carbide Expander/Decapping Rod Assy., adding that to my Redding FL/B die. According to Redding's website, the carbide expander is spherical and said to float. I intend on calling Redding and inquire as to the diameter of the expander and how much lateral float.

I much prefer the idea of a arbor with a pilot followed by a length of straight cylinder to ensure the case neck expansion is even along the case neck length. To me the downside to expander on the decapping rod, is the length of the expansion surface is relatively short, and can float non concentric within the case neck as it's drawn through.

I've used RCBS dies for years, and every time they offered a new style of expander, I would call and request one, of which they would send one, free, for whatever cartridges I playing with. One of the expanders sent for a 308 Win. die has a straight cylinder section about .200 in length. Of the three types of RCBS expanders, including their latest elliptical expander, the one with the straight cylinder section produced the least runout.

But my original question was, a list of all the companies that offer a die that screws into the loading press and has a pilot tipped neck expansion arbor. Possibly one that has arbors of different diameter.

 

[Bill Norris]

The die manufs. that I am familiar with do not label the expander mandrels as arbor type to my knowledge.

 

[kiwijohn]

While I am an arborist and my reading comprehension may be low I think what you are looking for is a mandrel, such as made by sinclair, or even a Lee collet die. You could google it, but then we would all loose the oppurtunity for input, and on forums input varies greatly, but some folk just get plain rude while they look down their big fat nose.
Sometimes we get the wrong input from others and threads go off on a tangent, so be it. No need to be derogatory @DaveTooley

 

[Martin52]

I'm asking for a die that is screwed into the press, that has an arbor in it, of which you run the cartridge up into it to resize the inside diameter of the neck.

The Lee Collet Die ?

 

[RegionRat]

Some here get what I'm asking. Some don't.

I'm asking for a die that is screwed into the press, that has an arbor in it, of which you run the cartridge up into it to resize the inside diameter of the neck. This in my case will obviously be a separate die and I will use after I run the cartridge through my Reading Full Length Neck Bushing die. I have three bushings, .336, .337, .338. I also have some smaller ID bushing for turn necks. This not my first rodeo with the 308 Winchester.

I'm using a RCBS Partner press for bullet seating, as it has a low compound leverage for a more tactile feel when, especially when first starting the bullet seating. I can feel variations in the seating force.

My other consideration is purchasing the Redding Carbide Expander/Decapping Rod Assy., adding that to my Redding FL/B die. According to Redding's website, the carbide expander is spherical and said to float. I intend on calling Redding and inquire as to the diameter of the expander and how much lateral float.

I much prefer the idea of a arbor with a pilot followed by a length of straight cylinder to ensure the case neck expansion is even along the case neck length. To me the downside to expander on the decapping rod, is the length of the expansion surface is relatively short, and can float non concentric within the case neck as it's drawn through.

I've used RCBS dies for years, and every time they offered a new style of expander, I would call and request one, of which they would send one, free, for whatever cartridges I playing with. One of the expanders sent for a 308 Win. die has a straight cylinder section about .200 in length. Of the three types of RCBS expanders, including their latest elliptical expander, the one with the straight cylinder section produced the least runout.

But my original question was, a list of all the companies that offer a die that screws into the loading press and has a pilot tipped neck expansion arbor. Possibly one that has arbors of different diameter.

Okay, the terminology got us since those are not arbors.

They are called mandrels... and some of the tools literally accept generic round stock like drill blanks or gage pins while dedicated tools use mandrels with better shapes for starting into the hole.

Some are called neck expanders, some are called pin dies, and some are called mandrel dies, but they all hold a mandrel in the end.

The Lee Collet Die is a little unique since it collet clamps the neck down onto the mandrel, so it doesn't require a bushing die or neck die to size down first. For more control on the finished neck ID, many folks have several custom mandrel diameters for these.

Here are some examples of the various styles of more typical mandrel dies.

https://www.portersprecisionproducts.com/mandrel-dies/

https://21stcenturyinnovation.com/buy-online/ols/products/caliber-specific-expander-mandrel
https://21stcenturyinnovation.com/buy-online/ols/products/expander-die-body

https://kmshooting.com/product/expand-mandrel-prebuilt-kits/

 

[DaveTooley]

Somethings never change.

 

[PRR1957]

MANDREL. Terminology is important. Getting old and forgetting stuff. At least I'm not as bad as Pedo Joe.

 

[SKWERLZ]

I’m a big fan of the Lee collet, currently studying their offerings to modify one for 6BRA.

 

[Iowa Fox]

I have a arbor Wilson neck sizing bushing die for my 22 Hornet. It works but the Lee collet neck sizing die does a better job for me.

I wish Lee would sell the patent on it to Redding or someone else.

 

[butchlambert]

I read his post to say .0004 not .004.

 

[kiwijohn]

I read his post to say .0004 not .004.

Yep, you're right. Too many zeros for me to count on one hand.