Is bolt-action receiver blueprinting still a common thing?

[AlNyhus]

Clearly, some need to change the brand of cigarettes they're smoking '.

 

[NZ_Fclass]

With a lack of gunsmiths and long lead times for those capable, custom actions make good sense.

 

[urbanrifleman]

With a lack of gunsmiths and long lead times for those capable, custom actions make good sense.

I don't think there is a shortage of gunsmiths. I see no evidence of this at all.

 

[jackieschmidt]

All actions need to have the ignition gone threw custom or not. drag can kill a great shooting gun.

Quite a few years ago, over on BenchrestCentral, a shooter was commenting how a VERY well known Gunsmith “trued” his new Stolle Panda.

It took the people at Kelbly about a minute to get on line and tell him he wasted his money. They also demanded that the Gunsmith cease messing with their actions, as they were correct out of the box and required no fixing.

It was a pretty lively discussion.

 

[jkohler]

Jackie I’m not doing really any truing up on the customs actions but I’m checking them for being square. If there’s many problems there going back. The firing pin and shrouds can be a different story as your aware. Customs actions are still a mass produced product.

 

[tonyben]

Thanks for sharing your opinions and experiences! This has turned out to be a most enlightening thread!

Tony.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

If you think custom actions are all perfectly straight and cant be improved, start measuring them.

 

[WSnyder]

If you think custom actions are all perfectly straight and cant be improved, start measuring them.

That’s for sure. I’ve had some amazingly bad ones over the years.

 

[AlNyhus]

I don't think there is a shortage of gunsmiths. I see no evidence of this at all.

There's no shortage of assemblers.

True gunsmiths/machinists that understand, have the diagnostic skills and will take whatever measures needed are very, very few. -Al

 

[NZ_Fclass]

I don't think there is a shortage of gunsmiths. I see no evidence of this at all.

Sorry - should have qualifird that to "in NZ"

 

[AlNyhus]

For example, no one has ever proven that "squaring" a Rem action makes it shoot better. In fact, to me, it causes more issues than it fixes.

There are multiple articles in Precision Shooting Magazine by well respected accuracy gunsmiths that documented this improvement.

One of my 6BR's was a test gun for this exact thing. Stan Ware was doing a lot of 700 work at the time and we both wondered how much difference there would be from an out of the box 700 and a fully accurized one. Since Stan was doing a 6BR for me, we decided to find out. I had already purchased a new 700 in 243W just for the action for this project so we had the perfect candidate.

Stan chambered and fitted the Lilja three groove in 6BR .265 neck .020 freebore for it with absolutely z-e-r-o work done to the action. I then pillar bedded it in a McMillan Sako Varmint pattern stock and went to the range to sort it out. The best load was a BIB 65 gr. and H322 that gave 3/8" five shot groups. Pretty good all in all.

Next, Stan squared the action completely. He also bored the reciever and fitted the bolt body with a full length one piece sleeve that he machined for .0015 clearance. The bolt handle was then reattached and repositioned for maximum camming and proper timing. The barrel was set back and the tenon and chamber were redone with the exact same reamer. I then redid the bedding since the recoil lug was changed and was now further rearward after facing the reciever off. It took .015 to square the receiver face.

Back at the range with the exact same load as before, it now shot very low to mid .2's for five shot groups. The groups were also much more round than the previous groups from the unaltered action. Another thing that was apparent was how well aligned the barrel was to the squared up action. I could bore sight it 100 yds, adjust the scope to where the bore was pointing and the first shot would be within 2-3 inches from my bore sight....a very good indicator of how square the shoulder/recoil lug/action face is. On the unaltered action, the first shot was a good 12-16 inches from the bore sight.

All in all....a pretty definitive back to back test. It took a 3/8" gun to a sub 1/4" gun. The percentage of improvement was pretty substantial.

This is the gun. From the 55 Nosler BTips at 3,700+ to 65-68 BIB's at 3,400, it simply does everything I ask of it, thanks to Stan.

 

[clowdis]

I'm retired now but I had very few customers ask for complete blueprinting on a Remington other than squaring the shoulder. I bought the tooling to do all the work but only used it a couple of times as there was no demand. As for custom actions, well, you better have some good equipment before you tell Kelbley's they do some crappy work.

 

[Walt Krafft]

If you do find something wrong with a custom action, my experience is they will fix or replace it.

 

[LVLAaron]

15 thou is... A LOT!

When I true AR uppers, it's generally a noticeable reduction in group size... Talking 1/4 MOA just by correcting a few thou. I'm sure that's not the same on a bolt gun with much better mating surfaces, but on an AR every little thing makes a big difference.

 

[LuvDog]

I think there are improvements that can be made but it takes a lot of skill and that costs money.

So now you're in to a run of the mill action for the more than the price of a full custom. I suppose if it's an action with sentimental value, then maybe. But if it were so sentimental, would people really start milling away at it and changing major components?

For me, I'd rather put that money in to a full custom action and have that as my starting point.

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

If the chamber is concentric to the bore, trigger, firing pin travel are the rest of the story. Until you put it in a stock.

 

[urbanrifleman]

There are multiple articles in Precision Shooting Magazine by well respected accuracy gunsmiths that documented this improvement.

One of my 6BR's was a test gun for this exact thing. Stan Ware was doing a lot of 700 work at the time and we both wondered how much difference there would be from an out of the box 700 and a full accurized one. Since Stan was doing a 6BR for me, we decided to find out. I had already purchased a new 700 in 243W just for the action for this project so we had the perfect candidate.

Stan chambered and fitted the Lilja three groove in 6BR .265 neck .020 freebore for it with absolutely z-e-r-o work done to the action. I then pillar bedded it in a McMillan Sako Varmint pattern stock and went to the range to sort it out. The best load was a BIB 65 gr. and H322 that gave 3/8" five shot groups. Pretty good all in all.

Next, Stan squared the action completely. He also bored the reciever and fitted the bolt body with a full length one piece sleeve that he machined for .0015 clearance. The bolt handle was then reattached and repositioned for maximum camming proper timing. The barrel was set back and the tenon and chamber were redone with the exact same reamer. I then redid the bedding since the recoil lug was now further rearward after facing the reciever off. It took .015 to square the reciever face.

Back at the range with the exact same load as before, it now shot very low to mid .2's for five shot groups. The groups were also much more round that the previous groups from the unaltered action.

All in all....a pretty definitive back to back test. It took a 3/8" gun to a sub 1/4" gun. The percentage of improvement was pretty substantial.

Sleeving the bolt was the accuracy improvement. I spoke about that.

Most gunsmiths that "square" don't do that.

 

[AlNyhus]

Sleeving the bolt was the accuracy improvement. I spoke about that.

Most gunsmiths that "square" don't do that.

It was certainly some of it. But not all of it. For example, I have two 700's here that reducing the bolt clearance...in and of itself...gave no accuracy improvement. And there was a reason for it. Subsequent machine work did bring them around. Everything has to function together as a system.

There's a lot more to this than meets the eye.

Good shootin' -Al

 

[Will Henry]

I have been truing actions, of all makes, for about 45 years. Over this time, my methods have changed (improved?) but the basics remain the same. I have never bothered to test before and after, so I can't really say how much accuracy was improved. Function was improved though. Bushing of bolt faces and reducing firing pin diameter absolutely ends primer cratering or blanking. Maximizing primary extraction certainly helps in that area. Squaring the bolt face to the bore aids brass life, and so on.
One Model 70 I trued was so crooked, the barrel diverged from being in line by over 9/16" at the muzzle. It was impossible to align the scope on this one. The firing pin hole was .030 off center. The bolt face was far from square to the centerline. The completed rifle shot very well but the big gain was in mechanical function. WH

 

[Alex Wheeler]

I cant say I have done a before and after test on a 700. But I have done a LOT of before and after on custom actions. Part of my job is fixing rifles that are not competitive. And I always ask for feedback. Sometimes its in the bolt, sometimes its in the action. But VERY minor things that you would not think would matter, DO. I am still amazed when I fix a minor issue and the rifle goes from mid pack to the top.