300AAC Subsonic load data sources

[Konocti's Wigwam]

You are completely missing some fundamentals.

I actually believe you might be missing something. There is a big difference between twist rate and expansion, and the 110 grain videos I've seen with 300 bo with 1:5 twist look devastating on hogs.

Shooting the 8.6 blackout at supersonic will obliterate the hog, IMO. Even the 300 blackout will destroy a good amount of meat if one is not careful with placement.

DISCLAIMER: I'm just an everyday Joe wanting to go hunting, not shooting competition.

The Hornady CX is no different.

Actually it is a bit different, it requires less velocity to expand. I am going to test my loads myself at the range to be certain.

The other problem with that bullet, for 300 Blackout, is length and the boat tail. This will rob much needed powder capacity. It will never reach the velocity of the flatbase 110’s. If you hand load this could make as much as a 300 fps difference. The higher BC will help, but only for about 100 fps.

I think you might be missing some data here. The twist actually helps stabilize the boat tail, the CX is a BT design. There are flat base also, but boat tails stabilize with faster twist.

Then there is the low end expansion threshold. For it to be more effective on game, it will need to fully expand below 1400 fps, or it will be no better performing than the Barnes 110 designed for the Blackout. Which by the way holds onto its petals up to about 2500 fps.

FWIW, the CX retains it's weight better than the Barnes. The Barnes is more likely to shed a petal.

Spinning a 220 SMK faster will have almost no effect on its terminal performance on tissue.

That could be a problem, but if you note above I mentioned I do not plan to hunt with subsonic, but I would use it for home defense.

I have only shot 220 grain SMKs with a 1:8 twist 10.5" barrel.

 

[dantiff2]

I actually believe you might be missing something. There is a big difference between twist rate and expansion, and the 110 grain videos I've seen with 300 bo with 1:5 twist look devastating on hogs.

Shooting the 8.6 blackout at supersonic will obliterate the hog, IMO. Even the 300 blackout will destroy a good amount of meat if one is not careful with placement.

DISCLAIMER: I'm just an everyday Joe wanting to go hunting, not shooting competition.


Actually it is a bit different, it requires less velocity to expand. I am going to test my loads myself at the range to be certain.


I think you might be missing some data here. The twist actually helps stabilize the boat tail, the CX is a BT design. There are flat base also, but boat tails stabilize with faster twist.



FWIW, the CX retains it's weight better than the Barnes. The Barnes is more likely to shed a petal.


That could be a problem, but if you note above I mentioned I do not plan to hunt with subsonic, but I would use it for home defense.

I have only shot 220 grain SMKs with a 1:8 twist 10.5" barrel.

Okay, I'm sorry if I've caused any confusion but you are saying you want subsonic load information but are referring to SUPERsonic videos. I'll sit this one out from here on out ; )

 

[Konocti's Wigwam]

Okay, I'm sorry if I've caused any confusion but you are saying you want subsonic load information but are referring to SUPERsonic videos. I'll sit this one out from here on out ; )

My main concern for 300 bo is being able to have the lightest firearm that I can legally hunt with in California. Please note that my 300 bo "pistol" has a cheek weld on the buffer, no stock. This may change, but the current law in California says you can't have a short barrel if the firearm was intended to shoulder. Mine was not. I do not plan to use subsonic as I do not believe it will be reliable to take game, but it can work, I'm just not sure it's ethical to shoot game with.

At supersonic velocity, the 300 bo can easily take down med size game. I believe it will take both hog and deer out to 100-200 yards. If I can't get that close, shame on me, I don't deserve to harvest game. Not hard to get within 100 yards for most hunters.

From my view I just need to figure out what bullet will work in a 7.5" barrel with 1:5 twist. There is also a 6" barrel, the 7.5" barrel is the longer version of a 1:5 twist barrel. It is the most likely to shoot both subsonic and supersonic out of the same barrel without having to adjust the gas port.

I have a tendency to upset people with my thought process, but certainly don't mean to do so, and appreciate being able to discuss this with folks like you.

 

[dellet]

I actually believe you might be missing something. There is a big difference between twist rate and expansion, and the 110 grain videos I've seen with 300 bo with 1:5 twist look devastating on hogs.

Shooting the 8.6 blackout at supersonic will obliterate the hog, IMO. Even the 300 blackout will destroy a good amount of meat if one is not careful with placement.

DISCLAIMER: I'm just an everyday Joe wanting to go hunting, not shooting competition.


Actually it is a bit different, it requires less velocity to expand. I am going to test my loads myself at the range to be certain.


I think you might be missing some data here. The twist actually helps stabilize the boat tail, the CX is a BT design. There are flat base also, but boat tails stabilize with faster twist.



FWIW, the CX retains it's weight better than the Barnes. The Barnes is more likely to shed a petal.


That could be a problem, but if you note above I mentioned I do not plan to hunt with subsonic, but I would use it for home defense.

I have only shot 220 grain SMKs with a 1:8 twist 10.5" barrel.

I can sum this up in one sentence. You’re wrong on almost all points.

There is no advantage to the boat tail until you’re past about 500 yards. The fast twist is closer to creating a problem with a boat tail than solving one

Jacketed bullets are no problem in a 1/5 twist, you have to pay attention to the spin rate. The saving grace of most 1/5 barrels is that they are short. Barrels over 8” will get up into velocities exceeding 350,000 rpm. That’s a problem. Stay under 2200 fps and many jacketed bullets will survive everything but a full auto mag dump. Double taps or one round a minute and you can just about shoot all day. It’s all about barrel temp and being smarter than the bullet.

As you move up in bullet weight, spin rates over 300,000 rpm are more difficult to achieve, so bullet failure is less of a problem.

I have shot thousands of 110 Varmageddons at 2300 fps in a 8” 1/5 twist. Only trouble was my wife shooting a carbine course. Bullets started failing halfway through the second magazine. Too many double taps in too short of time. About 40 rounds in less than 5 minutes. I have had a 1/5 twist since around 2016, they are nothing new.

The CX low expansion threshold might be a problem, the relationship between expanding and twist rate is that a bullet designed to expand at low velocities often does not have the tensile strength to open and twist through tissue without breaking off. It’s the rapid deceleration that is the problem. As I said, I haven’t worked with the bullet, simply because it will never be able to achieve the velocities I’m interested in at 110 grains. It’s a poor design for the cartridge.

There’s a reason Lehigh defense limits maximum velocity on some of their bullets to 1200 fps. They open up in flight in a 1/7. Lower in a 1/5. It’s not the forward speed, it’s the rotation.

The problem with a 1/3 twist is the bullet reaches 336,000 rpm at 1400 fps. the same rpm as a 1/5 at 2300.

In a 1/3 at 1050 fps the bullet will be spinning over 250,000 rpm. That’s hard on bullets and the hotter the barrel gets, the more likely the failure.

You can believe all the internet hype you want. Real life will be much different. The cartridge just does not have the energy to have a “devastating” effect on anything over about 200 pounds. I know people who have brought down hogs over 500 pounds. But for every one of those there are fifty people who lost a 100 pound whitetail because they thought they could shoot it in the ass and blow its brains out.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m a big fan of the cartridge, but a bigger fan of the truth. You’re setting yourself up for some disappointment.

I probably have sent a couple dozen bullets back to the manufacturers because they just wouldn’t perform as they hoped and were redesigned.

If you’re going to test a bullet, invest in some gel. Water and sand are a joke. You will also get the advantage of knowing how deep the bullet penetrates before it opens. This is a key piece of knowledge. A bullet can expand too soon.

I’m not picking on you exactly. But the kind of information you’re tossing out with absolutely no real experience, is what has given the cartridge a bad reputation.
I have pushed back against that for many years.

In the right hands, recognizing the limitations, it has its place. But when it takes 15+ rounds of supers to stop a 250 pound black bear that’s charging at you, you might change your opinion of its devastating stopping power. I’ve seen the photos of that one and talked to the shooters.

Thread drift off, I’m out unless there is a serious question.

 

[Konocti's Wigwam]

I can sum this up in one sentence. You’re wrong on almost all points.

Thanks.

 

[DShortt]

OK, so this has gotten pretty divisive already but my thinking was to pursue a cast lead bullet at subsonic velocities. I've no idea if I can use a bullet soft enough to expand yet tough enough to handle the rate of twist. I'm thinking a hollow point design might be best to look into.

Hopefully this doesn't start another urination contest as I'm not looking for an argument. If anyone has any relevant data I'd really appreciate it. Subsonic velocity and 100 yd max range is all I'm looking for. Again, it's a 20" barrel on a bolt action. Not an SBR or similar configuration.

Thanks in advance.

 

[dellet]

I’ve had a couple of questions as to my thinking on the whole twist rate issue and what it does and does not affect. It’s pretty simple when you look at actual numbers.

I will use “round numbers” for S.G numbers that are generally accepted.
1.4 Stable enough for round holes on paper, reasonable hunting distances
1.6 Minimum for “advertised” BC
2.0 needed for maximum BC for the bullet.

I’m going to use a Berger 230 Hybrid OTM.
It’s about the longest bullet (1.6”) you can use in a 300 Blackout because you start running into case capacity problems. Not enough room for powder at SAAMI length.

In theory it is just as at home in a 300 Norma at 2800 fps shooting a mile.

Use a 1/8 barrel in both rifles. 1/8 was the original SAAMI twist for the blackout.

2800 fps SG 2.464
1050 fps SG 1.816
the subsonic load Leaves a bit of BC on the table, move it up to 1/7

1050 fps SG 2.372
in the 1/7 barrel it basically matches the stability the bullet was expected to be used.

Take it to 1/5
1050 fps SG 4.648
No body needs that much stability. Will it cause a problem? Only if you want to take the sub load to the mile target.

As the bullets get shorter, SG only goes up. The bore diameter and velocity remain the same.

How about another popular sub bullet the Hornady 190 Sub X, 1.3” long
1/5 SG 6.63

How about the Hornady 110 CX
1/5 1050 fps SG 7.079
1/5 2300 fps SG 9.00
1/8 2309 fps SG 3.515

If we look at bullet rpm, what kills them in flight.
2800 fps 1/8 = 252,000 rpm
1050 fps 1/5 = 151,000 rpm

There can be an issue with starting a bullet too fast into an overly fast twist, but there are generally other factors if that causes the bullet to fail. But the numbers above show the bullet more likely to come apart in the 1/8 that the 1/5.

So why build a 1/5 SBR?
No advantage in accuracy, more likely a detriment if anything.
How much improvement in BC do you need in something that the expected use will be inside 50 yards?

Only one reason left, you want the bullets to come apart. Think about the reason for the design. Stopping over penetration and pass throughs on a thin skinned animal that is rarely more than 10” thick, 2” to the vitals and generally with a very low fat content.

Shorten the barrel to 5.5” and you solve the over spin problem with supers. They come apart just after impact.

Subs have a huge problem with over penetration. Big slow bullets designed to not come apart create problems. Note the photos I posted previously. 220 grains almost triple caliber expansion and would still pass through most people less than 20” thick.

Two basic ways to solve that problem, make the bullet tougher, or increase the stress on the same bullet. Just like a parachute, the faster and farther it opens. The faster it stops. The faster it stops the more stress placed on the bullet.

Since the cartridge is limited to a velocity threshold, we can’t add speed to gain stress. Only other easy option is to add spin. Goodbye 1/7, Hello 1/5.

But now there is another problem. The public.

We have a weapon and cartridge designed with a specific purpose. Stop what would be considered a thin skinned, relatively light, animal that lives in densely populated herds without collateral damage.

That public wants to use that system on thick skinned. High fat content animals with vitals more than 6” from impact.

It will work, but you probably should use a different bullet.

Sub sonic hunting/shooting has changed bullet science in huge ways. You can get maximum expansion, controlled expansion, fracturing, controlled fracturing, barrier blind and probably a few other designs that slip my mind at the moment.

Velocity for all those designs is capped by a max velocity. All you have to work with is spin rate. Match the bullet design and spin rate to your purpose.

Subsonic hunting is still very controversial. Mostly because of none recovered animals and poaching. Having an understanding of how the bullets work and why, shot placement and expecting to track after the shot cut down on lost animals. Turning in poachers sure won’t hurt.

A lot of numbers there, most were backed up with a lot of live fire and gel testing. Take from it what you find useful.

 

[Mike6158]

I just loaded some this afternoon. I haven't shot it yet. I got irritated with the Lake City brass that I salvaged from my Gorilla ammo and decided that unloaded brass was pretty look at but doesn't shoot very well.

I've loaded a lot of 7mag rounds with nickle plated brass. I'm not sure how many firings but I know it's about 10 years old and I've load tested with that rifle a lot. I have a test loaded for it right now but I need the rain to slack off a bit before I can shoot it.

Please post when you try them out, and I will also do the same. I ordered 100 of them, cheap enough, only $0.45/ea. I also ordered some 110 gr CX bullets. I'll try supersonics with 110gr and 150gr and subsonic with 220gr SMKs. It is amazing how wide the spectrum is on bullet weights.

The weather finally improved enough, while I'm not working, to go to the range in the next couple of days. We'll see how they do.

 

[Mike6158]

It turned off hot (100+) and windy (20kts from the south) and I haven't had a chance to shoot from a good bench. I've sent some downrange in my backyard. but didn't set the LabRadar up. This weather can't last forever.

 

[Konocti's Wigwam]

It turned off hot (100+) and windy (20kts from the south) and I haven't had a chance to shoot from a good bench. I've sent some downrange in my backyard. but didn't set the LabRadar up. This weather can't last forever.

I'm hoping to get a LabRadar soon, but need to wait a couple more weeks as the mortgage and bills and keeping me broke as I get back to work.

Hoping to work my loads out in a few weeks. For 300 blackout I plan supersonic mostly using 120 gr CX bullets. I will primarily hunt deer and pig with supersonic. That will be my backup and son's pig gun. I primarily plan to use 8.6 blackout as my primary hunting rife/pistol (I have both, one 16" and the other 12"). What twist rate are you using on 300 blackout??? I'm using 1:5 and 1:8, I have a 7.5" in 1:5 and a 10.5" in 1:8.

 

[Mike6158]

I'm hoping to get a LabRadar soon, but need to wait a couple more weeks as the mortgage and bills and keeping me broke as I get back to work.

Hoping to work my loads out in a few weeks. For 300 blackout I plan supersonic mostly using 120 gr CX bullets. I will primarily hunt deer and pig with supersonic. That will be my backup and son's pig gun. I primarily plan to use 8.6 blackout as my primary hunting rife/pistol (I have both, one 16" and the other 12"). What twist rate are you using on 300 blackout??? I'm using 1:5 and 1:8, I have a 7.5" in 1:5 and a 10.5" in 1:8.

I bought mine quite a few years ago. I was transferred to NW NM for work so none of my shooting "stuff" was used. I was supposed to be gone 1 year and it ended up being 5. It's good to be home.

Bear in mind I'm no 300 or 8.6 BLK expert. I have loaded the Barnes 120 gr TAC-TX BT's supersonic and 190 gr Hornady SUB-X's subsonic for the .300 BLK. I have a Ruger American Ranch rifle and an AR, both have 1:7 twist barrels. I have a 1:5 Twist ordered for the Ranch Rifle. I don't think I'll be able to shoot supers if I install that barrel unless I shoot solids. I stayed with the factory length, 16.4", which is going to spin the bullet up pretty high. I may try to contact the mfg and see if it's too late to cut it down.

I used the Berger stability calculator last night and 1:7 twist with either the AR or the Ranch Rifle is stable down to less than 300 fps. Even at 300 yards subs are travelling at that speed. No plans to shoot at that distance. Holdover is something like 10'. The 300 BLK will be a close in gun.

I haven't done anything with the 8.6BLK yet. It's funny how many haters there are still out there. Idk... It may suck. If it does I'll put a 6.5 Creedmoor barrel on it. I think enough people that one

 

[Konocti's Wigwam]

Bear in mind I'm no 300 or 8.6 BLK expert.

No worries, I'm not either. I have a 1:8 twist 10.5" 300 blackout, it's about 10+ years old. I have shot a lot of 220 grain SMKs with it (subsonic). I can't use those for hunting as they're bonded lead bullets. For anything faster twist you need to use monolithic copper bullets, hence the 120 grain CX. Those will most likely shoot in the 1:8 twist as well.

I mentioned I am building a 7.5" 1:5 7.5" barrel, and I won't be able to use bonded bullets with it, at least in supersonic, and supersonic is what I'm concerned with on 300 blackout for one simple reason. Shooting subsonic 300 blackout is a kick in the pants, it's a ton of fun. But it would be funner if I could use a suppressor in California, but alas so far I can't. That law may change soon, but it hasn't yet.

We really need to be honest about 300 blackout in subsonic. He just doesn't have enough powder to blow it's own nose. So if you don't have an advantage in using a suppressor, it doesn't make any sense to me.

I don't think I'll be able to shoot supers if I install that barrel unless I shoot solids. I stayed with the factory length, 16.4", which is going to spin the bullet up pretty high. I may try to contact the mfg and see if it's too late to cut it down.

I don't think you will either. But I wouldn't worry, there's a good selection of monolithic copper bullets on the market, Barnes LRX, TTSX and TSX are all great hunting bullets that hunters are using in states that allow lead. I like Hornady, and like the people there, great service on their product and the CX bullets are as good as Barnes, IMO, although they don't expand as much...the wound channel is hella big! (to quote my kids)

I haven't done anything with the 8.6BLK yet. It's funny how many haters there are still out there.

My whole reason for wanting to use 8.6 blackout is that it's a LOT more powerful than the 300 blackout. The pills are frickin' HUGE! I have Gorilla 285 grain fracturing bullets, they sell those projectiles. I will use those for subsonic, but same dilemma with the 8.6 blackout for me, no suppressor means no advantage to shooting subsonic, really, not when you can shoot supersonic. Hornady doesn't sell 300 blackout or 8.6 blackout in their Outfitter ammo, those use CX bullets in them, needed for the fast twist.

One advantage of the 16" barrel, and this goes for 300 blackout also. That you should never have a problem with SBR classification, where I have my short barrels configured as pistols. They're not intended to be shouldered. Rather I plan to shoot off a tripod with a V rest.

My son just came to get me to go walking (up to 2.5 miles) so I need to leave, but you could buy a barrel and swap it out yourself pretty easily, maybe there's someone in your area that could help you with a torque wrench, but the barrel uses about 80 ft lbs., so that one can be WAG'd if need be. Much harder to guess on the scope rings and such, pretty hard to destroy a barrel extension, food for thought.

Alan

 

[DShortt]

Obviously everyone has a different reason for experimenting with things. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, I had a 'Mini Mauser' in .223 with a bad factory barrel so I just decided to chamber one in 300AAC to play around with cast bullets and punch holes in paper.
Low powder charge requirement, no recoil, a chance to cast some more so that's my motivation. It may not work well at all. Only way I know to find out is to try it and see.
So that's my personal motivation.

 

[Konocti's Wigwam]

Obviously everyone has a different reason for experimenting with things. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, I had a 'Mini Mauser' in .223 with a bad factory barrel so I just decided to chamber one in 300AAC to play around with cast bullets and punch holes in paper.
Low powder charge requirement, no recoil, a chance to cast some more so that's my motivation. It may not work well at all. Only way I know to find out is to try it and see.
So that's my personal motivation.

I think it will work fine for you. If you really wanted to get better ballistics, converting over to 224 Valkyrie would be a better choice, but it requires swapping out the bolt, mag and barrel, where 300 blk only requires a barrel swap.

There are lots of barrels available, in a 16" 1:8 twist to 5.5" 1:5 twist and many in between. The 1:8 twist barrels will shoot bonded jacketed bullets just fine, if you have them. If you could get a suppressor in your state, subsonic is a kick in the pants to shoot.

 

[dellet]

. I have a 1:5 Twist ordered for the Ranch Rifle. I don't think I'll be able to shoot supers if I install that barrel unless I shoot solids. I stayed with the factory length, 16.4", which is going to spin the bullet up pretty high. I may try to contact the mfg and see if it's too late to cut it down.

No problem with jacketed bullets in a 1/5, as long as you mind the velocity. Keep it under 2200 fps, maybe 2100 if you want mag dumps, but in a bolt gun it will be difficult to get the barrel that hot.

With 110 grain bullets you need to be cautions, 2400 fps is off the table. With 125’s be careful and stay off max loads. But……

With 150’s it’s game on. What you will find, even at max velocity, is that the numbers for a heavy bullet makes better sense. Run the data for 110’s at 2400 fps, 125’s at 2250 and 150’s at 2100. You have to load hot to get a 150 over 2100 fps.

There are some 135’s out there also that can be pushed a bit.

Compare drops and energy on target. It might surprise you.

 

[DShortt]

No problem with jacketed bullets in a 1/5, as long as you mind the velocity. Keep it under 2200 fps, maybe 2100 if you want mag dumps, but in a bolt gun it will be difficult to get the barrel that hot.

With 110 grain bullets you need to be cautions, 2400 fps is off the table. With 125’s be careful and stay off max loads. But……

With 150’s it’s game on. What you will find, even at max velocity, is that the numbers for a heavy bullet makes better sense. Run the data for 110’s at 2400 fps, 125’s at 2250 and 150’s at 2100. You have to load hot to get a 150 over 2100 fps.

There are some 135’s out there also that can be pushed a bit.

Compare drops and energy on target. It might surprise you.

Compared to what? Most seem to consider a 30-30 impotent but it'll stand head and shoulders above a 300Blackout with 150s.

 

[dellet]

Compared to what? Most seem to consider a 30-30 impotent but it'll stand head and shoulders above a 300Blackout with 150s.

Comparing the velocity down range of the listed weight bullets and muzzle velocities listed. Considered about max for 300 BLK. The lighter bullets, at higher velocities generally lose their “advantage” quickly, if they ever even had it.m
This was specifically geared toward how to turn the limitations of a 1/5 twist into a workable advantage. But it applies to every cartridge out there. You have to measure the velocity gained with a lighter bullet against the energy and BC loss of the heavier, presumably longer bullet.

Concerning the 30-30 comparison

First response is people who can shoot, and hit where they aim, and know where to aim, don’t feel the 30-30 is under powered. Only limited in range.

Then look at the numbers, if you really want to compare the two cartridges, level the playing field.
Do you want to compare 16” barrels or 24” barrels?

This bullet is outside the 150 grain class, but it’s a popular 30-30 bullet. Hornady 160 FTX. Hodgdon list loads in the 19-2200 fps range in a 24” barrel. I can match/exceed those velocities in a 24” barrel and hit the low end in a 16” with 300 BLK. Not much different with a 150.

In the available bullet category, bullets designed for the 300 BLK probably have a better BC for the most part, so often the lack of velocity, is compensated down range with retained velocity and energy.

I say it all the time, and even earlier in this thread, 300 BLK is a low powered cartridge. If you’re going to hunt with it, you better be a hunter, with all the skills and discipline needed to make the right shot at the right time, and be able to recover a wounded animal when things go wrong. If you think a hit “somewhere in the body” means DRT, you’re a fool.

I’ll defend the cartridge because I know exactly what it’s capable of and how to get the maximum out of it. I won’t oversell it, I won’t put up with those that do.

The fan boy hype, is just as damaging as the I’ll informed critics.

 

[DShortt]

Comparing the velocity down range of the listed weight bullets and muzzle velocities listed. Considered about max for 300 BLK. The lighter bullets, at higher velocities generally lose their “advantage” quickly, if they ever even had it.m
This was specifically geared toward how to turn the limitations of a 1/5 twist into a workable advantage. But it applies to every cartridge out there. You have to measure the velocity gained with a lighter bullet against the energy and BC loss of the heavier, presumably longer bullet.

Concerning the 30-30 comparison

First response is people who can shoot, and hit where they aim, and know where to aim, don’t feel the 30-30 is under powered. Only limited in range.

Then look at the numbers, if you really want to compare the two cartridges, level the playing field.
Do you want to compare 16” barrels or 24” barrels?

This bullet is outside the 150 grain class, but it’s a popular 30-30 bullet. Hornady 160 FTX. Hodgdon list loads in the 19-2200 fps range in a 24” barrel. I can match/exceed those velocities in a 24” barrel and hit the low end in a 16” with 300 BLK. Not much different with a 150.

In the available bullet category, bullets designed for the 300 BLK probably have a better BC for the most part, so often the lack of velocity, is compensated down range with retained velocity and energy.

I say it all the time, and even earlier in this thread, 300 BLK is a low powered cartridge. If you’re going to hunt with it, you better be a hunter, with all the skills and discipline needed to make the right shot at the right time, and be able to recover a wounded animal when things go wrong. If you think a hit “somewhere in the body” means DRT, you’re a fool.

I’ll defend the cartridge because I know exactly what it’s capable of and how to get the maximum out of it. I won’t oversell it, I won’t put up with those that do.

The fan boy hype, is just as damaging as the I’ll informed critics.

Can't argue with your points. It's good for what it's good for and nothing else.

 

[dellet]

Obviously everyone has a different reason for experimenting with things. As I mentioned earlier in the thread, I had a 'Mini Mauser' in .223 with a bad factory barrel so I just decided to chamber one in 300AAC to play around with cast bullets and punch holes in paper.
Low powder charge requirement, no recoil, a chance to cast some more so that's my motivation. It may not work well at all. Only way I know to find out is to try it and see.
So that's my personal motivation.

With those requirements, and a 1/8 twist, you will have very few limitations. This is probably the heaviest bullet you can shoot, it might go a bit heavier with a different alloy. There is a mold available from Accurate. Maybe NOE.

Bullet Design Details | Accurate Molds

www.accuratemolds.com

265 DS Special Blk Out

ACME Bullet Company manufactures 265 grain 300 Black Out hard Bullets

www.acmebullet.com

It was designed more for single shots or single feed bolt actions and 4427 for powder capacity. During testing, I got it feeding in an AR and standard R700 boxes as well as AI pattern. 3 1/2” at 200 yards is a reasonable expectation as a sub. Under 3” takes work. I don’t know how it would work tumble lubed, never tried. With a bore rider nose, slow speed and low pressure, I can’t think of a reason it wouldn’t. Might need to adjust diameter of the mould.

The only bullet you might have problems with as a sub stabilizing in 1/8 would be 250 Atip. It was border line in an 8.5.

If you want to extend the potential of your rifle, consider an AI pattern magazine if you can get the bottom metal. I know MDT offers some one off magazines for the HOWA and such. The advantage is adding at least an inch to your loaded length. Their 223 magazines allow me 2.490”

If you want to tinker with loads, you have a few hundred different bullets weighing from about 75-265 grains, and about 40 different powders.

Then you can start on supers.

 

[Oso]

I’ve been shooting 300BO for a while, both at the range and hog hunting. I shoot it through both AR15 and bolt rifle. From hunting perspective the most important factor isn’t supers or subs, but rather suppressed or unsuppressed. I’ve found that regardless of velocity of bullet, the prey will scatter after the first shot. The suppressor will give you the opportunity for game to return to your area for more shooting opportunities during same hunt. No suppressor leads to everything leave the county and not coming back… hunt is over. I like 110gr Barnes TTSX or similar bullet for hunting pigs.

I found subsonic loads to be fun to shoot at range and with kids. In the field the velocity advantage of SuperSonics (extra 1,000fps - 1,300fps) is significant. With a suppressor the game will return…. No advantage to subsonic in this situation.

For home defense a 300BO shorty is hard to beat. Again, suppressed supersonic using 110gr VMax is hard to beat. Remembering height over bore sight adjustment at close range is more important than most of the other considerations discussed

Something I learned shooting IDPA during winter (little to no ambient ligh), test your powders in low light and while using a flash light. You might be surprised how poorly some powder perform…. Blinding smoke cloud reflecting back flashlight. Unique is horrible for this application. Not only will this affect home defense but also might impact night hunting using IR illumination (white out).

My practical 2cents