CFE223 Cleaning

[AR Shooter]

As I've not been able to find any of the usual "go to" powders like RL15, Varget, 4895, etc., for my 223 I've been shooting CFE223 in my R700 SPS Varmint with its 26" long 8" twist barrel and it is doing a good job. Sub 1/3moa when I do my part. However, I've found that it is about the dirtiest powder I've shot. With 24.5gr of CFE223 pushing 80gr SMKs or VLDs it shot mid-180s at our 600yd F/TR match yesterday, which was I thought was quite respectable for the 1st time out with a new rifle, new loads & an 18X scope. However, I've found cleaning after testing and, especially, after the match to be quite different from RL15 or Varget. I've run 15 wet patches (Hoppe's #9) thru the barrel and am still getting more black out. I'm down to running 4 wet patches and letting it set for a couple of hours before repeating. Down to the point that the black streaks are coming from the rifling, but still very dark.
Is this normal for CFE223 or is due to the stock, hammer-forged Cro-Moly Remington barrel being different from the Bartlein barrels I usually shoot and clean quickly? My scorer for the match ask what powder I was shooting as he said it was the "smokiest" powder he had seen at a match.

 

[358WCF]

The black can be a by-product of the stuff (tin?) they add to eliminate/reduce copper fouling & is really nothing to be concerned about.

 

[jpx2rk]

Might try some Bore Tech C4, or I use the Rem 10x solution to shorten the time needed to get the barrel clean enough. JMO

 

[Gundog]

CFE is dirty and smells weird. Before I leave the range, I run a couple really wet patches of a carbon remover through the barrel and leave the barrel wet.. By the time I reach home, The rest of the carbon is "Softened" up enough that another patch or two removes the rest and now you're down to the copper fouling. I like the stuff called CARB-OUT LIQUID CARBON REMOVER. There's other stuff out there but I use their whole line of cleaning products.

 

[JSH]

I don’t worry about “dirty”, I myself bathe on a regular basis as well.
I have found the CFE’s to work, not a cure all by any means but a job easier. I see and read about guys fighting carbon, maybe I don’t shoot as much? If I even think there is a carbon issue, I attack it quickly. I apply my preferred cleaner ASAP, before I leave the range, the quicker the better.
I am a Wipe Out fan and have used it pretty much since it first appeared, I have had zero issue with it. A lot of copper or carbon, don’t be in a huge hurry. Some of my varmint rifles may take several days to get rid of blue and gray.

 

[CharlieNC]

I've shot cfe for years. The absolute BEST cleaner is Free All. When you get carbon scrub Free All in with a few brush strokes and let it soak for a day, then scrub a bit.

 

[Hal]

NAPA sells FREE ALL . Their code # is FE 12.

 

[jpx2rk]

NAPA sells FREE ALL is FE 12.

is this a liquid or spray??

 

[Hal]

It's a spray.

 

[JSH]

I've shot cfe for years. The absolute BEST cleaner is Free All. When you get carbon scrub Free All in with a few brush strokes and let it soak for a day, then scrub a bit.

Like the penetrating oil? I used some of that a fellow gave me some years back worked very well on heavily rusted stuff. Reminded me of Kroil.

 

[CharlieNC]

Like the penetrating oil? I used some of that a fellow gave me some years back worked very well on heavily rusted stuff. Reminded me of Kroil.

That's it. I read about it here, as with other cleaning products, and FA has been the best by far.

 

[G Love]

In my experience factory or CM barrels take more to clean. I shoot a gen 1 700 VS 243win with 87 Bergers and 4064, and it seems it takes 3x the cleaning to get fairly clean where a 6GT with a Krieger 88 Bergers and Varget gets clean as a whistle in a fraction of the time. Both are suppressed, and cleaned every 50ish shots.

 

[358WCF]

That's it. I read about it here, as with other cleaning products, and FA has been the best by far.

Seems like a pretty good price for a gallon.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008HPW4UE/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1

 

[SG4247]

You ought to burn 80 rounds in a AR-15 at a match with CFE223.

Gun wont run at the next match without cleaning the GAS BLOCK also!

Damn dirty powder.

 

[SecondsCount]

In my experience factory or CM barrels take more to clean. I shoot a gen 1 700 VS 243win with 87 Bergers and 4064, and it seems it takes 3x the cleaning to get fairly clean where a 6GT with a Krieger 88 Bergers and Varget gets clean as a whistle in a fraction of the time. Both are suppressed, and cleaned every 50ish shots.

I believe it's both a factory barrel and a 243 issue. I run a Hawk Hill in 6x47L and it is so much easier to clean than my factory 243 barrel.

On edit: If you want clean powder, try VihtaVuori N140. A little pricey but I have seen it in stock at a few places recently.

 

[PRR1957]

I believe it's both a factory barrel and a 243 issue. I run a Hawk Hill in 6x47L and it is so much easier to clean than my factory 243 barrel.

On edit: If you want clean powder, try VihtaVuori N140. A little pricey but I have seen it in stock at a few places recently.

A late friend of mine and I went through two eight pounds of N-140 in 308 Win. with a Sierra 168 MK, BR-2, and Federal GM brass. Shot from three different Remington 700 PSS and one 700 VS, all four rifles shot sub 1/2" @ 200 yards. Super easy to clean. A squirt of Kroil, followed by Hoppies BR. Bore patches only.

I've been wanting to try the N-540 as it's supposed to be less temperature sensitive.

 

[Ned Ludd]

I have also had a good experience using Free All to remove carbon fouling left behind by other cleaning agents.

My typical cleaning approach starts with Boretech C4 carbon remover, then Boretech Cu2+ copper remover, and several strokes with a bronze brush at the end of each treatment. After several dry patches, I will apply a couple patches with the Free All, let it sit a few minutes, then give it three strokes with the bronze brush. The next wet patch of Free All will generally have quite a bit of residual carbon on it. I usually repeat this Free All treatment two or three times, which doesn't remove all the carbon that has apparently been left nehind by the other cleaning agents, but it gets a lot of it.

The key with using Free All in my hands is that it doesn't seem to do much by itself. In other words, mechanical action (i.e. strokes with the bronze brush) is also required. Nonetheless, it can help remove carbon left behind by other cleaning agents.

 

[SG4247]

You ought to burn 80 rounds in a AR-15 at a match with CFE223.

Gun wont run at the next match without cleaning the GAS BLOCK also!

Damn dirty powder.

In my open sight .223 AR, with a Bartlien bbl, I shoot 24.3 gr of N140 with a 77 SMK. Very accurate, and I can run it at all 8 matches at 75-80 shots per match, and not clean it ALL YEAR LONG ! Love N140 for .223.

 

[SG4247]

CFE 223 AR-15 and the AMP annealer.

Lesson learned, clean first.

 

[GuitarmanNick]

I think the issue with CFE223 is that much of the charge is unburned when used for .223 Remington. I like the results it produces, but it leaves a lot of debris in some applications.