Barrel Nut Disadvantages?

[DShortt]

To be the same as other nut setups youd make the nut 1 1/8-16 and just extend the tenon thread til the barrel tapers off. See savage tenon print. Your drawing there wont be a typical nut job

It would seem that a barrel nut made as closely to the ones already in use would represent more of a 'real world' test than making modifications to try to make a 'superior nut' so to speak. Obviously multiple nut styles could be tested but that would complicate things. Just my thoughts.

 

[jelenko]

I also would like to see various configs tested. But, for right now, let's just see the results of what someone has offered to test. The results might indicate what would be good to test next - assuming someone has the time and material to do so.

 

[DShortt]

I think multiple nut styles should be tested......

Prudent thought. I was thinking about the additional complexity but as an observer I'll certainly be thrilled with any information people are willing to share.

 

[JFrank]

I can post pictures of long range groups using both types, you won’t know which is which.

 

[jackieschmidt]

I’m going to do it this way. If it shoots well, I will just leave it together.

Keep in mind, this is a pretty darned good barrel. It’s a 1-17 Bartlien that has shot 23 X’s. These things aren’t cheap.

 

[SKWERLZ]

Pretty interesting 16 pages of arguing over a nut!

Should we switch to politics?

 

[LVLAaron]

Should we switch to politics?

I think that thread might be shorter.

 

[whatsupdoc]

 

[rijndael]

As I think through this.......

I think the barrel nut, when torqued, deforms a bit as it stretches, so the part of the nut that squeezes against the receiver face may not be true. If that truly does happen, what about having a collar between the nut and the receiver so that the collar is held true against the receiver? The nut could stretch out of true all it wants. This might even allow more torque on the nut.

This sounds like an ARC BarLoc, which had a very short life because of added POI shifts from side impacts.

 

[Dusty Stevens]

This sounds like an ARC BarLoc.

I got one of those rare pieces id sell

 

[tobnpr]

N

Obama and Trump both wear the Jew beanie. THE END. Back to nuts.

No place for that bullshit here.
GTFO.

 

[SKWERLZ]

This sounds like an ARC BarLoc, which had a very short life because of added POI shifts from side impacts.

That was the shouldered version because people weren’t preloading the collar and it couldn’t provide proper tension.

Use it correctly and it works great.

 

[AckleymanII]

various Nut pitch dia does vary, a tight fit on a barrel nut may make your head hurt when you see how loose/tight the thread Pitch is when screwed into the action, if it will thread into the action at all..

The thread pitch of the action vs thread pitch of the barrel nut is one heck of a problem at this time..

Now throw in a trued action pitch dia

I have 6 Dasher HV and 6 BRA barrels HV and Rem Varmint contours with barrel nuts on Non trued Rem 700s in BR stocks, 10x50 Sightron, jewel triggers They shoot fantastic for a varmint rig, and I have posted some groups shot on this site.

I torqued the barrel nut to 80 ft/lbs

Having played with only 4 custom barrels where I was playing with threading tolerances with various nuts, and actions, it is a simply amazing that the barrels shoot to the degree that they do. On each barrel nut, I cut the threads on the barrel tenon to give a tight Class 2-loose Class 3 fit with the barrel nut, then the pitch dia on the action was different + and -. I said to myself, "this is a Hail Mary job".

For me, nut jobs are for varmint hunting, big game hunting, casual target shooting, and guys that like to use Po Go sticks for a front rest, and for these purposes the barrel nut jobs will excel in spades.

I feel like there is an opportunity for a company to make precision barrel nuts that match up to their action regarding thread pitch dia., and a company to make a barrel nut with various pitch diameters. Trued Rem, Savage actions are a Bonafide nightmare when it comes to a sloppy fit with a barrel nut type of barrel. The sloppy thread fit barrels shoot extremely well, but competitive or not, I do not know. To my way of thinking, sloppy fitting threads are going to move around, especially with heat.

I detest a sloppy thread fit on a barrel in relation to action thread pitch dia, and to me, this is the weak link in the barrel nut system at this time, nut pitch dia vs action thread pitch dia. with a custom recoil lug being a given.

Also, alloy that the barrel nuts are made from is another issue as threads are going to stretch to their elastic limit. Barrel nuts made from 17-4 and 17-7 Ph maybe an answer, but I am certainly no expert in any of this.

 

[GenePoole]

Wow. It took me awhile to catch up with this thread. 10 pages or so since I last visited it. I've seen this before a few times over on Sniper's Hide or other forums where type A personalities collide over something like how scopes track or some other variable we deal with in our disciplines.

Let's be real for a second here. We're all type A or we wouldn't be in this game, but that also makes us think in binary and that this should be cut and dried, where a single test will tell us what we want. Conversely, the scientific method takes a much more pessimistic approach to the problem. We need to develop a clear hypothesis, and delineate that against a NULL hypothesis. Once that is determined, we need to come up with a test--preferably double-blind--that will unambiguously prove or disprove our hypothesis.

I would think at the least, we'd need 10 rifles of each design (20 total) identical in every other way and at least 10 shooters each doing ten matches each of at least 10 shot groups. To be double blind, the shooter can't know which rifle is which so some means of hiding the shoulder or nut should be devised. Once all the data are in, a blind analysis needs to be performed and statistical model analysed and if possible, evaluated against the NULL hypothesis (no idea how we would test that) and p-values assigned.

Already, you can see that this is going to be a costly endeavor and will likely never materialize unless we can get the Army Ordnance Corps or SAMMI or someone else with a vested interest and deep pockets involved somehow.

TL;DR: this is not going to be solved anytime soon by just throwing our anecdotes around.

 

[LHSmith]

The competitive arena is NO place for sloppy threads.
Why can't we just concede that winning some top Registered Matches with a nut will be a legitimate reason for acceptance that it offers accuracy on par with shouldered barrels. That's the way it's been since the inception of Benchrest which is the ultimate proving ground.

 

[ar15Jeff]

OK, I'm bored out of my mind looking at 3 feet of snow still in my back yard and wondering when the range will melt so I can shoot again. Anyway, getting back to the title "Barrel Nut Disadvantages". I have 3 of Brads pre-fit barrels that shoot as good or better than any of my shouldered barrels. That's not the question. The only disadvantages I've found so far is.
1. You can't control the "clocking" of the bore at the muzzle (up or down) as the position is determined by rotating the barrel for head-spacing. This may or may not be an issue.
2. When you headspace the barrel, tightening the nut increases the headspace slightly, so you have to take that into consideration.
I've been shooting a 6bra, so I matched all the barrels headspace to my resizing die (which was set up to a 6br case). It took a little trial and error to get all the barrels exact, but all ammo fits each barrel exactly. This may be a plus for a barrel nut setup with multiple barrels and multiple actions ( 2 Rem 40x's and 1 Origin) on a wildcat cartridge. I am a over the course, midrange sling shooter, HM classification, so if one method shoots a tenth of a minute tighter I wouldn't see it. My 2 cents.

 

[AckleymanII]

Great post, Gene!

 

[DShortt]

Is the inability to clock the bore a real detriment or more an inconvenience? I've never had a barrel that I couldn't zero with the scope so it's not affected me personally. But I do not shoot long range either. Just asking.

 

[LVLAaron]

Is the inability to clock the bore a real detriment or more an inconvenience? I've never had a barrel that I couldn't zero with the scope so it's not affected me personally. But I do not shoot long range either. Just asking.

For long range, it's nice to have the barrel pointing up... One could argue it should be up or down to not torque the rifle to one side... I'm sure someone has tested it

 

[Edd]

Is the inability to clock the bore a real detriment or more an inconvenience? I've never had a barrel that I couldn't zero with the scope so it's not affected me personally. But I do not shoot long range either. Just asking.

If Dave Tooley chambered and threaded it, it wouldn't need to be clocked.