Militarys new ammo

[Ray123]

I thinks there's a lot of useful life left in hand held firearms, especially with the advent of the new technology that's come about. For example, Vortex's smart optics they're building for the military. And there's automatic targeting systems like what TrackingPoint is producing. Because of such systems, maybe they need cartridges that can make it all more advantageous?

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The war that's looming won't be any need for small arms...maybe for a few survivors for a little while. If it goes nuclear. We have threatened Russia with 1st strike nuclear. A Russian nuclear sub was found patroling of Our coast. Russia has threatened to drop a nuke in Navada, to let us know they are serious. China is considering military action against Taiwan, and the new axis powers are lining up against us. Russia, China, Iran, N Korea, Saudi Arabia, are already forming a coalition...and test launching long range rockets, even N Korea fired one from a sub. While 2/3 of the world is Not siding with the US. And Nato is worthless, in any serious conflict. Seems like diplomatic talks, and compromise would on the table for civilized societies...instead of all the threats of total destruction. We have bio labs, germ, chemical, nuclear, drones, space warfare in the world arsenals...total mass destruction, available. Will it be used?
A small improvement in hand held cartridge rifles just seems modest at best...need some lazer type futuristic weapons.
But then depending on the environment, the ambush is up close and personal, "grab em buy the belt buckle." The distance is feet, not yards. Then start your attack, was rather effective,.. against Americans. But American commanders say, "we can kill them 15 to 1"... Their commander says, "I'll take those odds." ...We have lost every war since WW2...and so it continues..and we appear weak, soft, and unprepared, plus we have to buy our NATO allies, and 60% of them stated they won't fight for the NATO Alliance...but there is a new, slightly better, rifle cartridge, available, for an American army that cannot meet its quota of troops, as noone wants to be in this military and 88% of American youth do not even qualify for military service. ...A problem of gigantic proportion.

 

[SKWERLZ]

The war that's looming won't be any need for small arms...maybe for a few survivors for a little while. If it goes nuclear. We have threatened Russia with 1st strike nuclear. A Russian nuclear sub was found patroling of Our coast. Russia has threatened to drop a nuke in Navada, to let us know they are serious. China is considering military action against Taiwan, and the new axis powers are lining up against us. Russia, China, Iran, N Korea, Saudi Arabia, are already forming a coalition...and test launching long range rockets, even N Korea fired one from a sub. While 2/3 of the world is Not siding with the US. And Nato is worthless, in any serious conflict. Seems like diplomatic talks, and compromise would on the table for civilized societies...instead of all the threats of total destruction. We have bio labs, germ, chemical, nuclear, drones, space warfare in the world arsenals...total mass destruction, available. Will it be used?
A small improvement in hand held cartridge rifles just seems modest at best...need some lazer type futuristic weapons.
But then depending on the environment, the ambush is up close and personal, "grab em buy the belt buckle." The distance is feet, not yards. Then start your attack, was rather effective,.. against Americans. But American commanders say, "we can kill them 15 to 1"... Their commander says, "I'll take those odds." ...We have lost every war since WW2...and so it continues..and we appear weak, soft, and unprepared, plus we have to buy our NATO allies, and 60% of them stated they won't fight for the NATO Alliance...but there is a new, slightly better, rifle cartridge, available, for an American army that cannot meet its quota of troops, as noone wants to be in this military and 88% of American youth do not even qualify for military service. ...A problem of gigantic proportion.

Losing is more profitable than winning, eventually that business model is really going to nail us badly.

 

[Conaso]

I thinks there's a lot of useful life left in hand held firearms, especially with the advent of the new technology that's come about. For example, Vortex's smart optics they're building for the military. And there's automatic targeting systems like what TrackingPoint is producing. Because of such systems, maybe they need cartridges that can make it all more advantageous?

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What worries me about all this technology is failure to also provide fundamental training for when the tech fails, e.g., dead battery, damage, no GPS signal, etc. Examples:
Fast-food place when the credit-card link is down and hand the worker $21.60 for a $16.54 food order.
Had to bail out my neighbor when his wife poured gasoline into the lawnmower oil filler spout. Luckily the mower wouldn't start..

 

[Bill K]

Will it really gel and do better than the 6.8 they tested and played with a few years back ? It was a .277 cal also.

 

[goodbadugly]

You Vets should post more often. My buddy was SF in Thailand. Probably broke 15 international laws. War was winding down by then. You guys should tell your stories, respectfully.

Some stories are better left untold. RLTW Rob

 

[Straightshooter1]

What worries me about all this technology is failure to also provide fundamental training for when the tech fails, e.g., dead battery, damage, no GPS signal, etc. Examples:
Fast-food place when the credit-card link is down and hand the worker $21.60 for a $16.54 food order.
Had to bail out my neighbor when his wife poured gasoline into the lawnmower oil filler spout. Luckily the mower wouldn't start..

Yeah, high tech failure is a definite concern. My brother worked as a electrical technology engineer for a defense contractor and he was always fighting for higher reliability (lower failure rates) as upper management was always trying to cut costs. When the high tech works, it works really well . . . as we've seen happening in Ukraine.

 

[Conaso]

Yeah, high tech failure is a definite concern. My brother worked as a electrical technology engineer for a defense contractor and he was always fighting for higher reliability (lower failure rates) as upper management was always trying to cut costs. When the high tech works, it works really well . . . as we've seen happening in Ukraine.

When learning risk management, I remember being told you can build it better, faster, or cheaper but only two of the three.

 

[Infrequent Shooter]

Some stories are better left untold. RLTW Rob

Understand.

 

[DGP4]

If the Army had gone with Stoner's original AR-10 in 7.62 NATO none of the early issues with the AR-15 would have been an issue.

 

[D-4297]

You Vets should post more often. My buddy was SF in Thailand. Probably broke 15 international laws. War was winding down by then. You guys should tell your stories, respectfully.

In the "Herd" ; We were always out-manned , and out-gunned 8 or 10 to 1 in nearly every engagement . Nobody but guys who were there would believe the truth . They'd think it was all "Rambo" B/S .

 

[jackieschmidt]

When learning risk management, I remember being told you can build it better, faster, or cheaper but only two of the three.

I am sure you have heard the adage…..,”The same people that make Radar Detectors also make Radar Guns”

What worries me is all of the whiz band electronic fly by wire equipment we have invested so much in.

The enemy we will be fighting has probably figured out how to jam every bit of it. Heck, we probably sold them the technology.

 

[Old Navy]

Stoner warned them that the AR16 had to be kept cleaned and oiled. The brass ignored him. When they finally got around to asking the question of why it jammed so often, they sent him to Nam to fix the problem. Soon after, they issued cleaning kits and solved the problem but not before and lot of GI's died. As for caring for their wounded, hey passed the buy in their attacks and picked them up on the way out but did not treat them until they were away from the battlefield. I read somewhere that it took many thousands of rounds to each kill from our troops because of the spray and pray tactics.

Biggest problem was wrong ammo. It is well documented.

 

[goodbadugly]

Wrong political leaders also. They didnt want us to win the dam thing. They were making too much money in drugs & shipping. Population control to I believe. To dam many 18/20 year olds. Had to thin some out. Never was declared a war. But we kicked-ass. Then a few days later go back to the same ground and kick some more ass again? It was a joke. Won every battle but politicans bailed on us. We did our best. Then we got shit on when we come back! Go to the VA today and still get treated like shit. No justice. Just blowing some smoke . RLTW Rob

 

[Brians356]

Stoner warned them that the AR16 had to be kept cleaned and oiled. The brass ignored him. When they finally got around to asking the question of why it jammed so often, they sent him to Nam to fix the problem. Soon after, they issued cleaning kits and solved the problem but not before and lot of GI's died.

A buddy of mine was in 5/7 Cav in RVN (1965). I showed him this photo and he wrote:

Man, this brought back some old memories that I totally forgot about ...
Many times when we were on the firing line, we would have one guy protected and his job was to continually clear jams on the 16's. He would give em' back dripping with good old Mil Oil!!!! Door gunners and artillery used it by the gallon and I heard there was a spray cannister but never saw any.


-

 

[DaveTooley]

Will it really gel and do better than the 6.8 they tested and played with a few years back ? It was a .277 cal also.

The 6.8 SPC was a carbine round.

6.8mm Remington SPC - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Olde Man]

We were issued body armor in 68. Those flack jackets were good for something besides a very hard pillow. I had a M14 with the selector switch for full auto. It was an animal, The flack jacket and 10 Mags were heavy. I didn't care for the use of non issued rifles on the perimeter such as the carbines and ak's. When you sleep less than 200 yds from the wire you get used to determining wether it was incoming or outgoing by the sound, direction and rate of fire. The guy F***ing around with his ak or carbine was not my friend. Everybody saw it a little bit different. Thank you for your service.

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

Chinese will just drift more balloons over us. Biden thinks he is at a birthday party.

 

[338 Mollett]

I am more concerned with conflict that is going to happen here !

 

[slamfire1]

Just have to wonder how any round operating at 80 Kpsia will fair in the outside world. The slope of the pressure curve is exponential, and 80 Kpsia is way up there. Little things cause big pressure changes in exponential world. So I am just waiting to hear of field data with old cartridges, hot cartridges, etc.

Smart military round designers, such as the Chinese, keep pressure down. The 5.8mm Chinese round operates at a much lower pressure than the US service round. It only generates a 41,500 psi (284 MPa) chamber pressure which is marginally higher than that of the old single-base propellant used by the vintage 7.62x39mm and much lower than the 5.56mm M855/SS109’s 55,000 psi (380 MPa). Getting the job done at lower pressures give more margin for variance. It allows the use of less expensive materials, there are a host of good things at lower pressures which disappear at high pressures.

 

[dantiff2]

You could always ask this forum's very own Walt Kraft. I've heard that he has incredible knowledge of this 6.8x51 round as he was in on the ground floor of it's development.