Need Expert Advice - Load Data

[USAFRet]

So, really my first time getting a good test done on ammo. Results were mixed. Would like your thoughts. I would just load the one with the best group.

The one with the star beside it I had a flyer. Think it was me.


Sorry, rechecked numbers and was off a little. It is late.

 

[RegionRat]

How many shots was that per group?
Just based on the fine steps across that powder range, and the stats, it probably doesn’t matter which one you pick. Pretty high chance they are all roughly the same.

 

[K22]

If you're getting those kinds of groups from a 30-30 lever action rifle at 100 yards, I would say you need to go no further. No deer will survive out to 150 yards even with that flyer if you do your part.

 

[Mr Wick]

Sweet Spreadsheet. I'm going to start making one's like that.

 

[USAFRet]

Three shots per group.

This was 50 yards, so really the best would have been 2" groups at 100 yards. I ain"t that good, haha.

Marlin 336 with 1-6x32 LPVO.

Additional data on the cases for each group and velocity.

 

[USAFRet]

Sweet Spreadsheet. I'm going to start making one's like that.

I use spreadsheets and MS Project at work. Love keeping my data like this, but also have it all written in my load book.

 

[Full Chisel]

I'm running the same powder, bullet, with winchester primer, federal cases at 2.565 in Marlin 30AW. You're in the right area. I load at 37.0 gr snd have shot it up to 80 degrees without any pressure issues. To the point, I never had any solid loads until I got to 36.5 gr, then it starting shooting really good and stayed solid and maintained vertical and spread all the way to 37.5 gr, where I stopped.

I found my flyers were from putting rest forward under forestock wood. Place the rest back near the receiver and shoulder it tight and it does well. Just shot s 5 shot group of 5" at 300 yd on Tuesday, which is it's norm. Temp was 48 degrees. At 100, same day, my group was 1.1". It will hold the same spread at 30 degrees, and at 80 degrees. I would look for the entire range where vertical poi stays consistent and work from there.
FYI's:
1) Hornady says 37.0 is fine and stands by it, though hogdon says 35.5 so use you best judgement.
2) That powder is somewhat temp sensitive, so expect poi to shift.
3) My marlin chamber is generous, and I got 14/1000ths shoulder migration.

EDIT: My velocity at 37.0 gr is 2365 fps.

 

[Webster]

Sweet Spreadsheet. I'm going to start making one's like that.

I make spread sheets like this. Varmint hunting rifle. This was a ladder test. Always room for improvement. I don't care about ES , SD or % fill, just group size. Don't know why I shot it at 50 yards. They may have been cutting the grass? Not my favorite bullet. 14 twist doesn't like 70 gr and up bullets.

Date	Bullet	Powder	Wt.	Primer	COAL	Wilson	Bushing	FPS	ES	Horiz	Vert		no. shots	Pressue	Annealed	Comment	Total Shots
	70 BK	8208	33.3	BR4	2.165	165	265	lost		0.245	0.195			no		50 yrds
	70 BK	8208	33.6	BR4	2.165	165	265	3294						no		v slt ej mark
	70 BK	8208	33.9	BR4	2.165	165	265	3327						no		v slt ej mark
	70 BK	8208	34.2	BR4	2.165	165	265	3332						no		v slt ej mark
	70 BK	8208	34.5	BR4	2.165	165	265	3384								v slt ej mark

 

[Todd Earhart]

I could not make the ftx bullet group like I thought it should from my 336. I tried several combinations but around 2.5 inch at 100 was the best I could come up with. Suggestions from others for 748 and Hornady RN 150's got me what I was looking for.
Todd

 

[USAFRet]

I ordered 50 pieces of PPU brass to take out the different headstamp variable. This is too much fun. And too expensive, haha.

 

[USAFRet]

I could not make the ftx bullet group like I thought it should from my 336. I tried several combinations but around 2.5 inch at 100 was the best I could come up with. Suggestions from others for 748 and Hornady RN 150's got me what I was looking for.
Todd

A couple of my groups were fairly decent. If I can repeat and get 2" consistently at 100 yards, I am good for what I do.

The land I hunt, there is a stand with an 80 yard shooting lane. I took a buck at about 40 yards this year with my 308. Wanted so bad to take the 30-30, but I had not sighted in the LPVO I got for it.

 

[Keith Glasscock]

I would add that, in my opinion, the velocity variation should not be a deciding factor in your choice of loads. I'd focus solely on the grouping, and whether that meets your requirements.

 

[USAFRet]

I would add that, in my opinion, the velocity variation should not be a deciding factor in your choice of loads. I'd focus solely on the grouping, and whether that meets your requirements.

Thank you sir. I am headed in that direction. I am a newby and there is a lot of info out there, but that is a simple way to look at it. The one load just blew the others out of the water.

 

[Full Chisel]

A couple of graphs from my load workup. 34.0-36.0 is not shown because it's just not very stable in that area, at least over temp. I tried really hard, but nothing worked.

 

[USAFRet]

I'm running the same powder, bullet, with winchester primer, federal cases at 2.565 in Marlin 30AW. You're in the right area. I load at 37.0 gr snd have shot it up to 80 degrees without any pressure issues. To the point, I never had any solid loads until I got to 36.5 gr, then it starting shooting really good and stayed solid and maintained vertical and spread all the way to 37.5 gr, where I stopped.

I found my flyers were from putting rest forward under forestock wood. Place the rest back near the receiver and shoulder it tight and it does well. Just shot s 5 shot group of 5" at 300 yd on Tuesday, which is it's norm. Temp was 48 degrees. At 100, same day, my group was 1.1". It will hold the same spread at 30 degrees, and at 80 degrees. I would look for the entire range where vertical poi stays consistent and work from there.
FYI's:
1) Hornady says 37.0 is fine and stands by it, though hogdon says 35.5 so use you best judgement.
2) That powder is somewhat temp sensitive, so expect poi to shift.
3) My marlin chamber is generous, and I got 14/1000ths shoulder migration.

EDIT: My velocity at 37.0 gr is 2365 fps.

I am running probably 20fps above that at 37. Accuracy was the worst at that load.

I may do testing at the lower charges that Hodgdon advertises. I will say, at the 36.5 - 370, the rifle has a thump to it.

 

[Full Chisel]

I am running probably 20fps above that at 37. Accuracy was the worst at that load.

What rifle? What barrel length? What barrel twist? What brass? What H2O volume on fired case? What cartridge base-to ogive measurement when your overall length is 2.535"? What max OAL for your chamber for that bullet? Where are you placing your rest? Are you worried about scope scars? Etc., etc.

Meaning, there's a rabbit hole waiting if you're trying to get the LVR components to do what Hornady envisioned. That's why a lot of internet posters quit with these components after buying some and doesn't do what they expected. Hornady built a special powder and bullet for a 30-30 - seriously, lol. They intended it to be hot-rodded. Hot rodding comes with some time in the garage, lol. One test means nothing. I've got about 350 (carefully planned and documented) rounds down the pipe with this stuff, just curious more than anything.

I commend you for doing what you did and getting up to that charge level so quickly. You're SOOOOOO close. Most people would never even think of going there, but Hornady's invisible backstop for the lower charge weights is that most deer are shot within 100 yards, so a 2" group is fine. I sure hope you stay with it. I mean no disrespect, just being real and wanting to see somebody else give this stuff it's due credit.

Here's a story for you. I was testing 34.2 gr with the LVR stuff at 200 yards on an early Dec morn in '20. I was convinced this was the load from an extensive OCW test I had done. I was seeing some horizontal stringing that wasn't wind. About 9am, the Sharps Rifle group showed up. They were pretty blown away I was shooting a 30-30 at that yardage and we talked shop for a while. I eventually got off range and I watched their comp. One of the guys asked me if I wanted to shoot his custom Pedersoli 40-65. I said heck yeah. I shot the targets clean, prone, iron sights, and we went into a shoot off, to be done off-hand. Three of us including the guy who who owned the Pedersoli made it through the first target. Next target, another guy down, me and the rifle owner left. Third target, he missed. I really, really, thought hard about throwing that shot left with the wind out of respect. But, screw it, and I nailed it centerish. 200 yards off-hand with a 40-65 to a 6" steel plate. Most of the people quit long before that.

 

[K22]

Three shots per group.

This was 50 yards, so really the best would have been 2" groups at 100 yards. I ain"t that good, haha.

Marlin 336 with 1-6x32 LPVO.

Additional data on the cases for each group and velocity.

View attachment 1404953

I may be in the minority here, but my father and several uncles used the 30-30 Model 94 Win in the 50's through the 80's hunting eastern white tail deer where shot were rarely, if ever over 150 yards. All were successful even with open sights and factory ammo.

If you have a load that will consistently group 3 to 4" at 100 yards you will be fine for deer hunting if that is your goal and if your shooting opportunities are in the 150 yards and under range.

The 30-30 lever rifle in a great hunting rifle in thick cover but in my opinion, does not lend itself to extensive load development trying to squeeze a few tenths reduction in group size because of all the variables in a level rifle.

You might be better served by selecting one of the best loads and start practicing in field positions. This will yield more dividends than hours of load development on the bench unless that is what you like to do.

 

[762plinker]

wow get rid of the computer and start shooting.
get rid of mixed cases and start with 100 name brand new
weight sort them to remove any odd balls

 

[USAFRet]

wow get rid of the computer and start shooting.
get rid of mixed cases and start with 100 name brand new
weight sort them to remove any odd balls

I have some PPU cases coming in so I am using the same headstamp. Computer is only used to catalog information.

 

[USAFRet]

I may be in the minority here, but my father and several uncles used the 30-30 Model 94 Win in the 50's through the 80's hunting eastern white tail deer where shot were rarely, if ever over 150 yards. All were successful even with open sights and factory ammo.

If you have a load that will consistently group 3 to 4" at 100 yards you will be fine for deer hunting if that is your goal and if your shooting opportunities are in the 150 yards and under range.

The 30-30 lever rifle in a great hunting rifle in thick cover but in my opinion, does not lend itself to extensive load development trying to squeeze a few tenths reduction in group size because of all the variables in a level rifle.

You might be better served by selecting one of the best loads and start practicing in field positions. This will yield more dividends than hours of load development on the bench unless that is what you like to do.

Just looking for the most accurate load, load up 100 or so and move to the next. I am pretty happy with the results overall. And I won't be using this rifle for anything over 100 yards or I would have out a higher power scope on it. So, I will be working out to 100 yards next.