Shoulder bump for different brass

[Ajwilly96]

I was watching a video regarding shoulder bump by Erik Cortina. It was a very informative video on how to properly set your die using two pieces of brass.

I believe I will want to set the shoulder of my brass back .002 every time it’s fired. I’m using a Whidden bushing FL sizer for my 6XC.

I have two rifles one with a .140FB that I shoot with Norma 6XC brass and one with a .105FB that I’m using hornady 22-250 that will be fire formed. If I get my die set to bump the shoulder .002 on the Norma brass am I going to have to reset it when I switch to the Hornady brass? To add to the complexity I have not yet fire formed any Hornady brass so I am not sure if I will need a new bushing, I most likely will, .140 shoots the 115DTAC and the .105 is 107 SMK.

I feel like the logical answer to my question is I am going to have to reset it each time I switch due to the variance in reamers and brass but I wanted to see if anyone had experience with this.

 

[jackieschmidt]

Different brands do exhibit different hardness in the alloy that they use in the manufacture of their brass.

I suppose one end of the spectrum is Norma, historically known for making their brass on the low side of the hardness scale, and Remington, who historically makes theirs harder.

since you are relying on the cam over of the linkage in your press to determine the exact shoulder bump, and there is flex in the system, logic would dictate that yes, you will probably have to double check different brands to see if it does make any noticeable difference.

My best advice is as always. Measure to be sure.

 

[BoydAllen]

Brass that has different hardness, even if of the same make, will require resetting the die. The differences in hardness and the resultant spring back are the issue. For this reason I keep my brass in sets that I shoot and size in strict rotation so that the amount of work hardening will be as consistent as possible within a given set. At the start of any sizing session, I check bump, comparing sized case measurement to a standard dimension that I have developed for a particular rifle and barrel, if I have multiple barrels for a rifle. I do this by repeatedly firing a case with stout but safe loads, neck sizing only, until its shoulder to head dimension becomes stable.

 

[Straightshooter1]

I was watching a video regarding shoulder bump by Erik Cortina. It was a very informative video on how to properly set your die using two pieces of brass.

I believe I will want to set the shoulder of my brass back .002 every time it’s fired. I’m using a Whidden bushing FL sizer for my 6XC.

I have two rifles one with a .140FB that I shoot with Norma 6XC brass and one with a .105FB that I’m using hornady 22-250 that will be fire formed. If I get my die set to bump the shoulder .002 on the Norma brass am I going to have to reset it when I switch to the Hornady brass? To add to the complexity I have not yet fire formed any Hornady brass so I am not sure if I will need a new bushing, I most likely will, .140 shoots the 115DTAC and the .105 is 107 SMK.

I feel like the logical answer to my question is I am going to have to reset it each time I switch due to the variance in reamers and brass but I wanted to see if anyone had experience with this.

As jackieschmmidt BoydAllen says, brass hardness varies with different brass as does the brass's wall thickness, which will result in differences in shoulder bump. . . especially if your not annealing after each firing. I anneal after every firing and get the bump I'm after regardless of which brass I use. If there's a significant difference is the neck wall thickness, you'll need to use a different bushing to get your neck tension the same.

 

[DaveTooley]

Sounds like a set of Redding shell holders is in your future. It's the easy button.

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[williepete]

competition shell holder set
that way you don't have to mess with the die
change your bump with the shell holders

 

[BoydAllen]

competition shell holder set
that way you don't have to mess with the die
change your bump with the shell holders

Respectfully, that is not how they work. The die must be adjusted. What the shell holders is facilitate contact between the die and shell holders at different die settings, so that variation in bump are reduced by the press linkage being stretched or compressed in a more uniform manner. By selecting the proper shell holder from the set, to coordinate with the die setting, the shooter will have some slight toggling effect as he operates the press.

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

Don't set your die based on the brass, set the die to the chamber of the rifle. FB, free bore is a separate measurement unrelated to sizing brass for proper chambering fired brass.

 

[Ajwilly96]

Don't set your die based on the brass, set the die to the chamber of the rifle. FB, free bore is a separate measurement unrelated to sizing brass for proper chambering fired brass.

I had only mentioned the FB to imply that my chambers were cut with two different reamers.

 

[Mauser06]

Only way to know is measure fired cases from all your chambers and find out.

 

[DaveTooley]

Respectfully, that is not how they work. The die must be adjusted. What the shell holders is facilitate contact between the die and shell holders at different die settings, so that variation in bump are reduced by the press linkage being stretched or compressed in a more uniform manner. By selecting the proper shell holder from the set, to coordinate with the die setting, the shooter will have some slight toggling effect as he operates the press.

Redding says nothing about adjusting the die every time you use a different shell holder.

Now you can control headspace. The new Redding Competition Shellholders are packaged in five piece sets in .002” increments (+.002”, +.004”. +.006”, +.008” and +.010”). Each shellholder has a distinct black oxide finish and is clearly marked to indicate the amount it will decrease case-to-chamber headspace. You can now easily adjust the shoulder bump to customize cases to your specific chamber.

 

[jackieschmidt]

Redding says nothing about adjusting the die every time you use a different shell holder.

Now you can control headspace. The new Redding Competition Shellholders are packaged in five piece sets in .002” increments (+.002”, +.004”. +.006”, +.008” and +.010”). Each shellholder has a distinct black oxide finish and is clearly marked to indicate the amount it will decrease case-to-chamber headspace. You can now easily adjust the shoulder bump to customize cases to your specific chamber.

I use those. And you are correct.

 

[gdbleb]

Respectfully, that is not how they work. The die must be adjusted. What the shell holders is facilitate contact between the die and shell holders at different die settings, so that variation in bump are reduced by the press linkage being stretched or compressed in a more uniform manner. By selecting the proper shell holder from the set, to coordinate with the die setting, the shooter will have some slight toggling effect as he operates the press.

This has my interest as my set never delivered what I expected and as such it sits on the shelf.
So if I follow the instructions at https://www.redding-reloading.com/t...a-custom-die-with-a-simple-shellholder-change
It is not explicitly written there but should I adjust the die (slightly) down whenever I change to a smaller #'rd shellholder?

Many thanks Boyd.

 

[K22]

Similar to what Boyd Allen said, I dedicate a group of cases to a specific rifle and rotated their use. In my experience, this gives you the best sizing consistency. Also, making sure that the case is fully fired form is important before you start pushing back shoulder on new cases. I use a different method than Mr. Allen, I full size with zero bump but I believe the principle is the same.

In addition, because cases age hardens with repeated firings, I always check at least 3 in the batch I'm about to load with my Whidden bump gauge and caliber.

There will be times when some sizing adjustment is needed to yield the optimum sizing. There are many ways to do it and I've tried many of them. The easiest, quickest, and least expensive way I found is to use Skip Shims which insert under the locking ring. I never have to change my die lock ring once my FL die is set up to use these shims. I merely insert an appropriate size shim to achieve the desired amount of sizing. I record the shim size on the cartridge box for reference for the next sizing.

Perhaps it was merely a bad set that slipped through, but a fellow shooter was using those Competitive shell holders and having problems with obtaining the desired sizing. We checked them and found two that were not the correct size as stamped on the shell holder. So, if you go this route, make sure you check them. They are expensive too.

 

[Lone Hunter]

Here is a link to Reddings Instructions and Use of the shell holders. They do work. But like K22 said check them…

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[K22]

Don't set your die based on the brass, set the die to the chamber of the rifle. FB, free bore is a separate measurement unrelated to sizing brass for proper chambering fired brass.

This is a good point. Remember, why are we sizing cases in the first place?

There are only two reasons: 1. So the case neck will hold the bullet, 2. So, the case will chamber safety and flawlessly. That's it! Experience has shown that a bump of .001 to .002" works well with most bolt rifles but in my opinion, it's not an absolute. Some require more, some work quite well with less. In my opinion, less bump is better if the case will chamber without issues.

This is not to say that I advocate neck sizing. Can it work - absolutely. I did it for many years because I believed the myth of the 60's that it produces more accurate reloads and extends case life. Neither is true if you FL size properly. The problem with necks sizing is the unpredictability as to when a case will start to experience chambering difficulties. You don't want to find out in during a hunt or match. Also, FL sizing sizes the radial dimension of the case whereas neck sizing does not. Many times, that's all that's needed, i.e., zero bump.

It the old days before gauges and the internet, knowledgeable reloaders used the rifle chamber as the gauge to set the FL sizing die. In my opinion, it's still the ultimate gauge. However, using bump gauges and a caliper makes it less tedious to having to check cases in the rifle chamber. However, I still, to this day verify my sizing by spot checking a sized case in the rifle chamber. I won't go into it here, but there are ways to do it to optimize the method and results.

 

[mikecr]

Shoulder bumping is one operation I despise.
It seems a truly custom, and sometimes skilled action.

Given this, once I have a well working combination, I store everything together in a box -for that chamber/gun.
Another chamber/gun, another box with sometimes duplicated components (including shellholders, bushings, shims, gizzys), but working without hassle for each.

I do to-the-moment bump adjustments with lube, or with a feeler gauge/shim under the case head.
I never readjust a bump die beyond initial. If bump becomes too much of a fight, it's time to dip anneal and reset the batch.

 

[JMayo]

I have my desired sholder measurements written down for each rifle. I refer to them each time..i use a pma tool on my dies. I size and adjust to get what i want.

Norma and russian 220 are the two i have for ppc and the same barrel.
half a thou too more or less bump won't cause problems if im not pushing the min or max.