Hello all! I'm new here but I have seen a couple sets of these dies already sold on different threads so I am hoping for a miracle that someone else has a set they might part with. I just inherited my wife's great grandfather's Sako. It was bought new in the 1950's and chambered in .17 Javelina. There were no markings on the barrel so this has been a journey already just trying to figure out which ".17 Wildcat" this gun shot. Now that I know it is the Javelina, I would like to buy the necessary equipment to reload. I will just now be getting into reloading as well, so I don't know EXACTLY what all is needed. I do have 56 spent casings and the old hollow point 25gr bullets. I have those because my wife's grandfather was going down this same path many years ago before he passed. We just got the gun from her father. Any help or knowledge would be greatly appreciated!
.17 Javelina Dies and Information Requested
- Thread starter RyanClay24
- Start date
Wow, hadn't heard the words "17 Javelina" in years...thats from A&M Rifle Company out of Prescott AZ...in 1954. But being an old geezer and a member of the Varmint Hunters Club ... I'm familiar with this cartridge, designed by Paul Marquart back in the day, and used buy Varmint Hunters club members who were into 17 caliber over 40 ys later.
Load data 17 Javelina
Formed from Sako 222 brass 32° shoulder
Trim length 1.530"
Rem 7 1/2 primer or Fed 205M
24" barrel Rem 40X action
Hodgdon 4895 all loads
Berger 25 gr bullet all loads
Start
18.2 gr H4895 25 gr Berger = 3798 fps
18.4 gr H4895 25 gr Berger =3849 fps
18.6 gr H4895 25 gr Berger = 3869 fps
18.8 gr H4895 25 gr Berger =3938 fps (very accurate )
19.0 gr H4895 25 gr Berger =3951 fps (accurate)
19.2 gr H4895 25 gr Berger = 3996 fps (MAX WORKING LOAD...very accurate)
When experienced handloaders of this cartridge say Max working load ...it IS a max working load with these exact components.
But you need the dies for 17 Javelina ...these days that could be expensive....look at your fired brass
This has a 32° shoulder. 1.535" long .376" head dia. .365" shoulder dia. .204" neck dia off his reamer print. Wilson seating dies were common for that time for superior accuracy when seating.
Load data 17 Javelina
Formed from Sako 222 brass 32° shoulder
Trim length 1.530"
Rem 7 1/2 primer or Fed 205M
24" barrel Rem 40X action
Hodgdon 4895 all loads
Berger 25 gr bullet all loads
Start
18.2 gr H4895 25 gr Berger = 3798 fps
18.4 gr H4895 25 gr Berger =3849 fps
18.6 gr H4895 25 gr Berger = 3869 fps
18.8 gr H4895 25 gr Berger =3938 fps (very accurate )
19.0 gr H4895 25 gr Berger =3951 fps (accurate)
19.2 gr H4895 25 gr Berger = 3996 fps (MAX WORKING LOAD...very accurate)
When experienced handloaders of this cartridge say Max working load ...it IS a max working load with these exact components.
But you need the dies for 17 Javelina ...these days that could be expensive....look at your fired brass
This has a 32° shoulder. 1.535" long .376" head dia. .365" shoulder dia. .204" neck dia off his reamer print. Wilson seating dies were common for that time for superior accuracy when seating.
My wife said she would rather it sit in the safe never to be fired again rather than change anything on the gun from when her great grandpa then grandpa owned it. Many years ago, she was scouring the internet with her grandpa trying to find a set of dies. Her grandpa was an inventor and gunsmith. He created the Peifer muzzleloader. It had some industry firsts and Marlin was courting him to purchase the patent until he passed away. Very interesting story, actually. Either way, the rifle will remain. haha
Thanks so much for the information!!! I ordered a set of dies from Midway USA. They should be to them in March then they will send them to me. I have been working with a local gunsmith to machine some dies for around $800-1000 so I am glad someone sent me a link to find them for a little less than $300. I ordered PO Ackley's book but I got volume 2 and the Javelina isn't in there. Do you know if it is in volume 1 before I order one?
You're welcome...enjoy..
Yes its in volume #1.
2 powders listed with 25 gr bullet pages 258 & 259
25 gr bullet
15 gr 4198 =3225 fps
16 gr 4198= 3510 fps
17 gr 4198 = 3705 fps
15 gr 3031= 3075 fps
16 gr 3031=3336 fps
17 gr 3031= 3570 fps
18gr 3031= 3704 fps
18.5 gr 3031= 3845 fps
Those will be IMR powders from back in the day.
Ackley was a 17 cal fan and hunted more than varmints with his ... goats on Catalina Island if I remember correctly.
I have hundreds of books on reloading, from precision shooting to Varmint Hunters where the Javelina was still being used ...probably something in there too.
Back in the Varmint Club hunting days people in the club used everything from 17 caliber to 50BMG...with 16 sec bullet flight time and a forward observer. I made connections with the 308 past 1000yds another guy made a hit at 2000 with his 308...and were going to 3200 yds with the 308...his shooting buddy dropped his 264 mag and went 338 Lapua, for 3200 yd hit...the race was on all kinds of big wildcats off the .416 Rigby case..then the 50BMG...for squirrels and prairie dogs. It all came to an end with government regulation, animal rights groups, and federal protection of the black tailed prairie dog. It can still be done in certain states with limited lands open and expensive fees...like Indian reservations.
Another place to try is Varmint Hunter Al's web pages, he used a variety of cartridges for that endeavor including wildcats with His loading data and groups included...if you can still access it.
Yes its in volume #1.
2 powders listed with 25 gr bullet pages 258 & 259
25 gr bullet
15 gr 4198 =3225 fps
16 gr 4198= 3510 fps
17 gr 4198 = 3705 fps
15 gr 3031= 3075 fps
16 gr 3031=3336 fps
17 gr 3031= 3570 fps
18gr 3031= 3704 fps
18.5 gr 3031= 3845 fps
Those will be IMR powders from back in the day.
Ackley was a 17 cal fan and hunted more than varmints with his ... goats on Catalina Island if I remember correctly.
I have hundreds of books on reloading, from precision shooting to Varmint Hunters where the Javelina was still being used ...probably something in there too.
Back in the Varmint Club hunting days people in the club used everything from 17 caliber to 50BMG...with 16 sec bullet flight time and a forward observer. I made connections with the 308 past 1000yds another guy made a hit at 2000 with his 308...and were going to 3200 yds with the 308...his shooting buddy dropped his 264 mag and went 338 Lapua, for 3200 yd hit...the race was on all kinds of big wildcats off the .416 Rigby case..then the 50BMG...for squirrels and prairie dogs. It all came to an end with government regulation, animal rights groups, and federal protection of the black tailed prairie dog. It can still be done in certain states with limited lands open and expensive fees...like Indian reservations.
Another place to try is Varmint Hunter Al's web pages, he used a variety of cartridges for that endeavor including wildcats with His loading data and groups included...if you can still access it.
And there is a 5 step process for making 17 Javelina out of 222 with off the shelf dies..I'm a retied machinist so I make my own forming dies ...but also cut up Lee dies with carbide tools to make forming dies for other calibers.
So internet check the "5 step process for forming 17 Javelina" it's there with regular off the shelf dies. I haven't read it ...I just look at the cartridge I'm trying to from and how can I get there...17 is harder because of the tiny necks...for most I just turn necks in a Hardinge toolroom lathe...kinda like cheating ...but you can do it. I have several thousand 222 brass and 17 Rem brass...from my varmint shooting days...just more information.
So internet check the "5 step process for forming 17 Javelina" it's there with regular off the shelf dies. I haven't read it ...I just look at the cartridge I'm trying to from and how can I get there...17 is harder because of the tiny necks...for most I just turn necks in a Hardinge toolroom lathe...kinda like cheating ...but you can do it. I have several thousand 222 brass and 17 Rem brass...from my varmint shooting days...just more information.
3Ackleys
Gold $$ Contributor
It is in Vol 1. Page 258
rickiesrevenge
Silver $$ Contributor
If you want more than 56 pieces of brass youll need some sort of case forming dies. Your regular reloading dies wont do it. Dont have a 17 javelina yet but I do have a 20 javelina improved. I don't think its too difficult to make the cases.
You might check out this guys way of case forming.
You might check out this guys way of case forming.
I really appreciate all the help! Do you want to sell some of the .17 Rem?
Thanks very much! I was thinking of cutting down a .17Rem die. I just have to verify neck angles. I do have a local "old school" gunsmith here in town helping me with some of the detail work.
The neck angles are different 23° to 32° for the 17 Javelina ... Go to "Preditor Masters forum" ..."5 steps forming 17 Javelina brass" ...the guy tells ya how he uses cheap Military 5.56 brass for this conversion 5.56 to 17 Javelina ...the dies are over the counter and explains his process..may be of interest to you . I still shoot 17 Rem so won't be getting rid of the brass ...besides ya cut it off at the neck/ shoulder junction, and the angle is 23° sbd you need 32°, but it would work. The shoulder has to be set back .191" at 32° according to my drawing.
So pushing it back in steps at 30° with available dies altered in 22 cal 30° shoulder, leave enough for the 17 Javelina die to fully form.
Then I'd put it in a wilson trim die 222 , 17 Rem 223 the same die, should work fine and bore the ID in a lathe with a carbide boring tool I have ground for that purpose...no donut necks the right thickness for your chamber...but it can be done with hand tools just take alot longer. I form a bunch of calibers...Lee sizing lube works good where others fail, especially the Hornady spray lube, doesn't usually cut it for heavy sizing projects.
So pushing it back in steps at 30° with available dies altered in 22 cal 30° shoulder, leave enough for the 17 Javelina die to fully form.
Then I'd put it in a wilson trim die 222 , 17 Rem 223 the same die, should work fine and bore the ID in a lathe with a carbide boring tool I have ground for that purpose...no donut necks the right thickness for your chamber...but it can be done with hand tools just take alot longer. I form a bunch of calibers...Lee sizing lube works good where others fail, especially the Hornady spray lube, doesn't usually cut it for heavy sizing projects.
I just made a die from an old 222 trim die ...played around with it, quite a bit, took a lot of cutting & reworking...ended up with a 22 Javelina...from LC 223 brass ...seems to work pretty good, with just one die...lube with Lee resizing lube in the but white tube, run through die, trim to length, deburr, run over expander its now approximately a 22 Javelina...but it's not a 17 Javelina. It may just run through a factory die, and you're done...but the brass has been worked and turning necks and annealing will probably be in order.
I have the Sweet Seventeen manual and that's where the above info with H4895 comes from.
The case capacity is a little more the the 17 Fireball, so that any powder listed in the manuals in the 25 gr 3600 fps area could be used as starting loads for the 17 Javelina...easy with a chronograph and looking for pressure signs as you move up in velocity.
I built or extensively reworked a 222 trim die in the lathe, and found it quite easy to form 223, 223, & 17 Remington to 22 Javelina with a 32° shoulder.
The easiest is 222, one pass and trim to length.
The 17 Remington case is no help, as the whole neck is turned off getting to the 1.530" length. All that needs to be done is run the 22 Javelina brass through a FL 17 Javelina die ...neck turn, and annealing are probably in order. But it's not difficult.
If it was my rifle I'd have ammo ready to go the next day...slowly push the shoulder back until the bolt closes. I have thousands of .17 cal bullets, and find it hard to order stuff snd wait half a month for delivery...waiting at this very moment for FedX , for 2 rifle barrels and 16 lbs of powder...supposed to be delivered today. Retired machinist so "I aint got nothin better to do", but work on 5 rifle projects at once...shoot, reload, build rifles, experiment with all the components, barrels, modify everything, or anything, push the envelope with crazy ideas on how to improve my shooting hobby experience.
The case capacity is a little more the the 17 Fireball, so that any powder listed in the manuals in the 25 gr 3600 fps area could be used as starting loads for the 17 Javelina...easy with a chronograph and looking for pressure signs as you move up in velocity.
I built or extensively reworked a 222 trim die in the lathe, and found it quite easy to form 223, 223, & 17 Remington to 22 Javelina with a 32° shoulder.
The easiest is 222, one pass and trim to length.
The 17 Remington case is no help, as the whole neck is turned off getting to the 1.530" length. All that needs to be done is run the 22 Javelina brass through a FL 17 Javelina die ...neck turn, and annealing are probably in order. But it's not difficult.
If it was my rifle I'd have ammo ready to go the next day...slowly push the shoulder back until the bolt closes. I have thousands of .17 cal bullets, and find it hard to order stuff snd wait half a month for delivery...waiting at this very moment for FedX , for 2 rifle barrels and 16 lbs of powder...supposed to be delivered today. Retired machinist so "I aint got nothin better to do", but work on 5 rifle projects at once...shoot, reload, build rifles, experiment with all the components, barrels, modify everything, or anything, push the envelope with crazy ideas on how to improve my shooting hobby experience.
That sounds like a fun time! I am at the very early stages so I don't have near the expertise for much of that. I am working with an old school type gunsmith. They're the best because they know the "why" instead of just how to get things done with modern technology!
Do you happen to know the size of the reamer that goes down the reamer die? I have the set of dies, to form it from 222, but it does not have a reamer with it. Thank you
crystalgayleguy
Gold $$ Contributor
What is the 17 javelin is it just the 222 necked down
L.Sherm
Silver $$ Contributor
I'm gonna revive this i just got done making brass and doing some load development on the 17 Javelina, being a wildcatter im gonna dig around for a FL sizing die and reamer so if anybody has a FL die or reamer P.M me I'm looking for a .204-.205 nk and zero freebore reamer
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