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rare Winchester model 70

jsof

Gold $$ Contributor
Back in 1973 I bought a Winchester Model 70-308 directly from Winchester and recently decided to mount a scope on it for target shooting since I no longer hunt. I spoke to a nice guy from Talley because I needed to know exactly what type action was on the rifle and I had some confusion about the fact that it has a long action despite the fact that Winchester did not make a long action Model 70 in .308 back in 1972 which is when the serial number indicates mine was made. The length of the space between the action screws and between the scope mounting holes both indicate it is long action for sure.

He suggested I check it out with Winchester because as he put it, that would probably make it a very rare gun which might then be worth more money than normal, so I called them (Browning) and was told they had no records from that year's production due to a fire at the old Win factory. They said try the Winchester Collectors Association, but no luck there nor with a fellow who they said was a Model 70 guru. Further calls to the Blue Book of Gun Values and to Pre64Win.com have proven to be dead ends.

So, my question is does anyone out there know anything more about this possibly rare gun or what it might be worth?
 
The guy from Talley did not know his Winchester 70's. All Winchester model 70 rifles were long action until after bought out by U.S. Repeating Arms (about 1981), who then started making short actions for the .308 family and shorter cartridges. I had a .222 on a long action at one time. Winchester just made a longer bolt stop for them and boxed in the back of the magazine for the appropriate cartridge length.
 
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Well, there's not much financial advantage in acquiring knowledge about the older stuff (unless it's valuable, really rare stuff). So being in business to make a living, most gun shops try to know and stock the latest thing, which is what most customers inquire about and are buying. Only the old fogies who grew up with the old stuff and loved it are generally familiar with it.
 
I can tell you I have marksman model 70 in 308 tuned up by pj Wright. I absolutely love it. Set yours up and shoot it, I bet it will become a favorite.
 
Well my self and a few Friends had these Winchester Actions back in the 90's.
We traveled to CADA Gun Show in Illinois one day. There was a retired man at a Table with a large Winchester Logo.
We brought from Him several Winchester Actions. These where Post 64 Push Freed .
They are Long Action Short Port . Also back in those day Winchester Made some .308 Target Rifles for the Military with this style Action. The Military Rifles had a different Trigger in them. There was a adjusting screw in the Tang of the receiver.

I built a 7-08 on one back then got my first Master Card at 1000 yards.
Last many things let it go.

Hope this is of some help ?
 
SBS said:
Well, there's not much financial advantage in acquiring knowledge about the older stuff (unless it's valuable, really rare stuff). So being in business to make a living, most gun shops try to know and stock the latest thing, which is what most customers inquire about and are buying. Only the old fogies who grew up with the old stuff and loved it are generally familiar with it.
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Everything has its day.
 
It just struck me as odd that three real Winchester enthusiasts and the company itself either agreed with the first guys thought or had no idea. By the way, he openly admitted that he did not know about the actions for sure, and he did put me on the path to at least try to get to someone who could help me out. Lots of guys would shrug and walk away.
I think everything has several days as it were, and one day young gunners will be going ooh and aah over the beauty and feel of wood and blued steel on old rifles.
As far as new style ar and ak and chassis guns, the more the merrier.
Still, thank God for the fogies.especially the ones with great memories.
 
GPalman said:
Everything has its day.
Click to expand...

SBS said:
Well, there's not much financial advantage in acquiring knowledge about the older stuff (unless it's valuable, really rare stuff). So being in business to make a living, most gun shops try to know and stock the latest thing, which is what most customers inquire about and are buying. Only the old fogies who grew up with the old stuff and loved it are generally familiar with it.
Click to expand...
I see a lot more money made dealing in older guns than new. New stuff your stuck competing with every other store to have a competitive price and get the sale. Older stuff can bring in much higher returns.
 
GPalman said:
If they are under 40, they probably are experts on AR's and plastic stocked wonders but many probably know squat about blued steel and walnut stocked junk :)
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Some of us are experts with both conventional and modular rifles.
There's no age threshold..
Just folks who spend time in both camps. That said, I use the "expert" term loosely. More like jacks of all trades. There's merit in both schools. No need to take sides. :rolleyes:

Hoot
 
Long, standard, or short, IIRC the hole spacing for the base screws should be the same. However, with a long action the overall length between the first and last hole is longer. Two pc mounts should work on either. One pc mounts or rails would not work. Due diligence is your friend.

Winchester started marking barrels post 64 with SA, maybe in the 80s to let folks know it was a true short action. They also came back with a Classic action in the 90s that was slightly different than the pre 64. I seem to think there might have been a little overlap with the push feed, but never looked at that specifically.

Today, they are either long or short, since mid 2000s, with the claw type extractor. There was a change in the bottom metal as well. Two pc was abandoned in favor of one pc. The screw holes in the action will work with ether - long or short specific- but the thickness of the metal is different. And, the recess in the stocks is different. I haven’t looked at a really new one to see if they are still drilled/tapped for what would be the front trigger guard screw still for the two pc. The one pc metal should work on an action originally set up for two pc.

Heavy Varmint and Stealth as a factory rifle almost always used Bell Carlson. I’ve seen a few HS. The Laredo from the mid 90s is a Bell Carlson.
^^^ ETA When memory fails look it up. HS stocks came first.

Early on in the FNH and Winchester merger Winchester built some of the SPR rifles for FN, or FN built the rifles with Winchester barrels, usually they are marked on the barrel. Most times but not all, the earliest rifles have Near two pc rails. I’m thinking there was a tolerance issue with two pc mounts and they changed over to the Near one pc rail. I asked an engineer at FN what they did with the barrels that didn’t shoot to spec, believe this was mid-late 90s, he said they pull it and determine why it wasn’t shooting.

I’m going off memory here….
 
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Two Time HM LR said:
Well my self and a few Friends had these Winchester Actions back in the 90's.
We traveled to CADA Gun Show in Illinois one day. There was a retired man at a Table with a large Winchester Logo.
We brought from Him several Winchester Actions. These where Post 64 Push Freed .
They are Long Action Short Port . Also back in those day Winchester Made some .308 Target Rifles for the Military with this style Action. The Military Rifles had a different Trigger in them. There was a adjusting screw in the Tang of the receiver.

I built a 7-08 on one back then got my first Master Card at 1000 yards.
Last many things let it go.

Hope this is of some help ?
Click to expand...
The post 64 push feed actions and rifles, from the early 70's on, are one heck of an action/rifle. Much, much, much under appreciated.
 
There was a considerable overlap of the pre-64 "type" action and the push feed, long after FN bought out U.S. Repeating Arms. The claw type extractor was the expensive model; the push feed and the "controlled push feed" were sold much cheaper, and most sold through the big box stores. The first of the pre-64 type was available for several years only in the Super Grade, with some really nice wood. After a few years, it was made available in a standard grade called the Classic. Main design difference from the true pre-64 was it had no feed rails built into the receiver; feed was controlled by the shape of the magazine, and of course the receiver was slightly longer to handle the H&H length cartridges (without having to cut on the receiver). By the time FN shut down the New Haven plant, it was almost impossible to obtain any of the stainless claw extractor models.
The heavy varmint with blued actions and Wilson SS barrels used H-S Precision stocks. I was at the Win. booth opening morning of the Shot Show the year they were announced and had a long talk with them about the quality of the barrels. Ordered a personal .22-250 and was a 1/3 MOA rifle right off the bat. H-S made a copy of the old Marksman stock especially for this line of M70's. B&C had not yet begun to copy the H-S aluminum bedding block.
I have not kept up with the M70 since Browning saw fit to change the T/G, change over to metric threading, change the trigger, etc. The samples I saw at the Shot Show when these versions were first introduced had a poor appearance. I figured show samples were usually the best they had and any ordered rifles would be no better and likely worse. Now being made in Portugal and I've seen some that were poor shooters -- don't know if that's normal now or not. Sure liked the old pre-64's --light, strong and slick. Also have some Mod. 54's; also great actions if you do something about the triggers and safety.
 
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Yes FN closed the New Haven Winchester plant, but union troubles, rising labor rates and an ever increasing anti-gun political atmosphere were the real culprits.
 
If you want a load of BS.......ask a "professional". Professionals know enough to be called "professionals" by those that don't know anything.

If you want to know the truth........ask a hobbyist. Hobbyists learn everything they can possibly know about their hobbies if they've been at it awhile. AND they never stop learning about it.
 
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