• This Forum is for adults 18 years of age or over. By continuing to use this Forum you are confirming that you are 18 or older. No content shall be viewed by any person under 18 in California.

Contrasting BC's between Hornady ELD and Berger Hybrid

Use the G7s, and I bet they are a lot closer. G1s are velocity dependent and different companies represent them in different ways, whether it’s the G1 at 2700 fps (random #) or the average of three different velocity bands.

eld=.401, 180H = .349. Bigger difference than I expected
 
In addition to what others have posted, the Hornady bullet has a ballistic tip, so in effect it has already been "pointed". The Berger 184 does not, and can be pointed at home, thereby improving the BC another 4-6%, or so. In other words, the advertised BCs are not an "apples-to-apples" comparison.
 
Taken from the Hornady website, note the first bullet point.

The Ballistic Coefficient​

Before discussing this topic in more detail, let's dispel some myths surrounding it. Whatever you may have heard before, these are the facts:

  • There is no such thing as an absolute and invariable ballistic coefficient (B. C.)
  • Ballistic coefficients are only one factor in bullet selection for different kinds of shooting.
  • A ballistic coefficient can change with reference to (1) altitude, (2) temperature, (3) atmospheric pressure, and (4) relative humidity.
  • Ballistic coefficients are measures of a bullet's relative efficiency.
  • Ballistic coefficients are not measures of a bullet's "goodness."
  • Higher B.C.s do not necessarily make a bullet "better."
  • Lower B.C.s do not necessarily make a bullet "worse."

They are putting out some useful info. Not end all/ be all, but useful.
 
Taken from the Hornady website, note the first bullet point.

The Ballistic Coefficient​

Before discussing this topic in more detail, let's dispel some myths surrounding it. Whatever you may have heard before, these are the facts:

  • There is no such thing as an absolute and invariable ballistic coefficient (B. C.)
  • Ballistic coefficients are only one factor in bullet selection for different kinds of shooting.
  • A ballistic coefficient can change with reference to (1) altitude, (2) temperature, (3) atmospheric pressure, and (4) relative humidity.
  • Ballistic coefficients are measures of a bullet's relative efficiency.
  • Ballistic coefficients are not measures of a bullet's "goodness."
  • Higher B.C.s do not necessarily make a bullet "better."
  • Lower B.C.s do not necessarily make a bullet "worse."

They are putting out some useful info. Not end all/ be all, but useful.
Good info. I am sure Berger would agree.

BUT .....Berger BC is a heck of a lot closer across the board than Hornady. I am sure it is part of Hornadys marketing plan because their science can't be that far off.
 
A lot of it is marketing for sure. Hornadys numbers have always been a bit high, but they have gotten better since they released the ELD lines I think. When I use a Hornady bullet I always look at the spec sheet and use the average G7 BC. This always seems to work out well in firing solutions in my Applied Ballistics app. Interestingly, in the Applied ballistics app the BC's for Hornadys bullets are much lower than advertised or even avg BCs. For example the 6.5 140 ELD-M has only a .296 G7 vs the advertised .326 and the avg .319. For me personally the avg BC gives me better results when using a Hornady bullet. All other bullets I use within Applied ballistics are spot on. I am sure all bullets are tested the same by AB but it's interesting to see the BCs of the Hornady stuff so much lower, makes me wonder why.
 
Recently had the opportunity to shoot out to 1500 yards with 300 WM and Hornady 225g 30 cal ELDM. Using Hornady 4DOF app and inputting current range values as closely as possible that day, what was stated as come ups from Hornady app was within 1/2 minute all the way to 1500. Pleasantly surprised!!
 
Below is the recommendation from Hornady as to the use of their BC's for the ELD's. you are left somewhat to your imagination as to the interpretation of the values. Are they single point or average to velocity. I interpret the these as single point values and I would ignore the 2.25 value in most cases and use the 2.0 value until my velocity drops below 1950 fps then use the 1.75 number.

  • Mach 2.25 (2512 fps* and above) - Velocities above 2,500 fps and distances out to 300 yards.
  • Mach 2.0 (2232 fps*) - Mid-range shooting where the bullet spends time in flight after slowing down.
  • Mach 1.75 (1953 fps*) - Long-range shooting where much of the bullet flight occurs after velocity loss
Below is from Berger's No BS BC.

"Berger Bullets is committed to the success of our customers, which is why we publish BCs which are measured from live fire doppler radar testing, and averaged from 3000 to 1500 fps".
 
I used to put bullets from the same class head to head with the same safe powder charge, through the same gun or guns. I’d get a zero set and shoot a group for one bullet, and then shoot a group of another and go down and see how high/low and upwind/downwind it formed. Some bullets are marginally harder to get started than others, but a lot can be learned this way, and that difference is actually among the important ones.

Let me elaborate on the “same powder charge” notion. For purposes of evaluating relative BC’s, roughly, the charge need not be the absolute ideal, highest accuracy load for either or all of them. There are at least four very popular 180 grain 7mm match bullets brands, call them, yellow, blue, red and green, and the goal there was to pick a charge that, hopefully, appeared from looking at the brass, to be getting about all the performance the brass could offer at least 7-10 times, from all of them, and that is indeed pretty doable. An attempt to see how far each drops from a 2,850 FPS MV is also logical but ignores what each bullet may be doing to brass to attain identical velocity.

This method can also reveal the benefits of tipping bullets or not, and of course a make’s propensity to group small relative to others. 600 yards is really the absolute minimum to look for inherent differences and advantages. Alternating them in the shot sequence probably makes the results the most reliable. Printed BC’s didn’t determine the affinity for one over the other.

Most of us contemplating or shooting matches are not tied to a brand of bullet or other components or gear, and we should use that ability to its fullest potential to determine what works best, because the ones who are tied to particular brands earned that spot and are darn good shooters and loaders who are poised to clean everyone else’s clocks and show why they were chosen to be affiliated. They generally lead all matches as a result of skill and practice, despite limited choices across the board, and the “limited” choices they have, are also very, very good ones. Good luck!!
 
Recently had the opportunity to shoot out to 1500 yards with 300 WM and Hornady 225g 30 cal ELDM. Using Hornady 4DOF app and inputting current range values as closely as possible that day, what was stated as come ups from Hornady app was within 1/2 minute all the way to 1500. Pleasantly surprised!!
I loaded some of these in my 300win in a bartlein with about 80 rounds on it. It's only doing 2745 right now. What were you seeing for velocity?

I did smash one through an elk at 631 and it performed as desired.
 
Below is the recommendation from Hornady as to the use of their BC's for the ELD's. you are left somewhat to your imagination as to the interpretation of the values. Are they single point or average to velocity. I interpret the these as single point values and I would ignore the 2.25 value in most cases and use the 2.0 value until my velocity drops below 1950 fps then use the 1.75 number.

  • Mach 2.25 (2512 fps* and above) - Velocities above 2,500 fps and distances out to 300 yards.
  • Mach 2.0 (2232 fps*) - Mid-range shooting where the bullet spends time in flight after slowing down.
  • Mach 1.75 (1953 fps*) - Long-range shooting where much of the bullet flight occurs after velocity loss
Below is from Berger's No BS BC.

"Berger Bullets is committed to the success of our customers, which is why we publish BCs which are measured from live fire doppler radar testing, and averaged from 3000 to 1500 fps".

Ever since I can remember Sierra has given 3 different BCvalues based on MV.
 
I loaded some of these in my 300win in a bartlein with about 80 rounds on it. It's only doing 2745 right now. What were you seeing for velocity?

I did smash one through an elk at 631 and it performed as desired.

30" 10 twist Krieger using IMR 7828SSC was getting 2950 FPS with the 225g ELDM
 
Ever since I can remember Sierra has given 3 different BCvalues based on MV.
Sierra has been doing that for some time. They have also stayed with G1 and the G1 varies much more over the velocity range than G7. Regardless of the data it doesn't replace Dope since all are estimates at best.
 

Upgrades & Donations

This Forum's expenses are primarily paid by member contributions. You can upgrade your Forum membership in seconds. Gold and Silver members get unlimited FREE classifieds for one year. Gold members can upload custom avatars.


Click Upgrade Membership Button ABOVE to get Gold or Silver Status.

You can also donate any amount, large or small, with the button below. Include your Forum Name in the PayPal Notes field.


To DONATE by CHECK, or make a recurring donation, CLICK HERE to learn how.

Forum statistics

Threads
165,860
Messages
2,204,949
Members
79,174
Latest member
kit10n
Back
Top