Reaming 7.62 NATO to 7.62x54r

[S11033]

The biggest problem with the SMLE is the lack of good optics mounts, I'm getting older now and I can't see the iron sights anymore and they never were a thing for me anyway, I have imported quite few sets of "Hilver Mounts" And rings from Australia and they are similar looking to a Redfield style base except the rings are mounted over a stud and front and rear rings are windage adjustable. Tasco also imported the Hilver rings and bases under the "Tasco World Class" Brand and once in a while you will stumble across a Tasco SMLE mount if you get lucky, I have used those too. Millett made a mount for the #4 #5 Smle rifles and they are ok, But kind of cheezy, They are hollow underneath and the ring retention screws on the rear strip easily if over-tightened. And then there is a company in Canada making Pic rails which I have not tried and the only reason I have not tried them is they sit too high up above the receiver. These guns can be made pretty accurate if you cut a very tight chamber to begin with because the rear locking lugs will stretch on you, Try to start out on the No 4 action with a "0" Bolt head, They come in different lengths starting at zero and going up.

Always wanted to do a 2A but haven't ran across one that has been cut up, I call these "Choppers" and I am always looking for guns that have been chopped..

My thinking was that I could use the No.32-style pads and side-mount from the No.4 T and L42 or a Bad Ace Tactical mount if I want to make my life easier.

Maybe I'll just import one of those Hillver mounts for my 2A, and match an L42 handguard to the Jungle Carbine-style stock that's on it now.

Lawndart

 

[Sniperhandle]

The No.32-style pads have a tendency to come loose, That's why you see the screws punch peened on the originals and you are stuck with that one mount. I have used that mounting system a long time ago when "Nodak Spud" was making them here in the US. The front pad needs to have register milled into the receiver, Not just drilled and tapped and screwed on, So mounting is not as easy as it looks. When Holland & Holland would build the original rifles, They would mill the register and use a Collimator to get the bore lined up correctly to the scope, So in other words the depth of the register would be different on every rifle and that's the most difficult part of using that mounting system. The Bad-ace would be a much better choice.

 

[ebb]

You guys must have been separated at birth. I to love the TRG rifles. I had never owned a Sako and bought one from CDN sports when they sold off all of the TRGS rifles left when Berreta got Sako. By the time I had figured out what great rifles they were CDNN had sold the rest of them. I should have bought all they had when i got mine.

 

[Ringostar]

Can I ask, Why do you want to go away from the 303 cartridge? I had one that was an amazing shooter with hand loads.

 

[S11033]

The No.32-style pads have a tendency to come loose, That's why you see the screws punch peened on the originals and you are stuck with that one mount. I have used that mounting system a long time ago when "Nodak Spud" was making them here in the US. The front pad needs to have register milled into the receiver, Not just drilled and tapped and screwed on, So mounting is not as easy as it looks. When Holland & Holland would build the original rifles, They would mill the register and use a Collimator to get the bore lined up correctly to the scope, So in other words the depth of the register would be different on every rifle and that's the most difficult part of using that mounting system. The Bad-ace would be a much better choice.

Thanks, that's super useful. My dad has a No.4 T but I did not notice that register when looking at it. I'll just plan to use the Bad Ace if I end up scoping the No.4.

I'll use the Hillver if I scope the 2A1.

 

[S11033]

Can I ask, Why do you want to go away from the 303 cartridge? I had one that was an amazing shooter with hand loads.

I'm trying to avoid having to keep yet another projectile SKU around, and I'm allergic to the .311" bore diameter. I could definitely keep it in .303, but I'd like to do something cool with it if I could, given that I need a new barrel anyway. Ideally I'd like a .308" or .264" bore.

Last night I learned that 6.5x53r is similar to .303 in case dimensions. I'd need a reamer made with a much shorter lead for Spitzer projectiles, but that seems pretty doable. I could probably use a 6.5x54 M-S sizing die.

I'd love to do 7.62x53r or 7.62x54r with a .308 bore (using D-4297's reamer design) if the case can be made to feed easily. In the same vein as D-4297's solution, I could probably have a .303 reamer redesigned for a .308 bore. But then again, I could probably achieve the same result using a 30-40 Krag chamber with a shortened throat.

Lawndart

 

[D-4297]

The main issue we were dealing with was to eliminate the excessive throat / leade of the CIP standard . The CIP design was mainly for machine guns to counter excessive heat build-up , and had the negative effect of not allowing proper seating depth adjustments for competition bullets adjustments . The "re-design" on the Reamer shortened the throat and neck dimensions to accomplish this .

 

[S11033]

The main issue we were dealing with was to eliminate the excessive throat / leade of the CIP standard . The CIP design was mainly for machine guns to counter excessive heat build-up , and had the negative effect of not allowing proper seating depth adjustments for competition bullets adjustments . The "re-design" on the Reamer shortened the throat and neck dimensions to accomplish this .

Gotcha, that makes sense. Maybe I could get away with just having him reduce the neck of the .303 reamer by a couple thou and call it good.

My thinking was that the throat may end up too long since it's a .311 chamfer going into a .308 hole.

 

[D-4297]

That was the biggest issue we had to correct . Took a couple of try's at changing the throat length to get it right .

 

[S11033]

That was the biggest issue we had to correct . Took a couple of try's at changing the throat length to get it right .

I guess it would really depend on the throat spec of that particular .303 reamer. It would be kind of cool if I could get away with a straight .303 reamer...

 

[Sniperhandle]

I'm trying to avoid having to keep yet another projectile SKU around, and I'm allergic to the .311" bore diameter. I could definitely keep it in .303, but I'd like to do something cool with it if I could, given that I need a new barrel anyway. Ideally I'd like a .308" or .264" bore.

Last night I learned that 6.5x53r is similar to .303 in case dimensions. I'd need a reamer made with a much shorter lead for Spitzer projectiles, but that seems pretty doable. I could probably use a 6.5x54 M-S sizing die.

I'd love to do 7.62x53r or 7.62x54r with a .308 bore (using D-4297's reamer design) if the case can be made to feed easily. In the same vein as D-4297's solution, I could probably have a .303 reamer redesigned for a .308 bore. But then again, I could probably achieve the same result using a 30-40 Krag chamber with a shortened throat.

Lawndart

I have also built the 6.5x53R and a 6.5 PRC on the Mosin, I got a silver medal (2nd Place) at a long range match this year with the 6.5x53R. Dont be afraid of the .311, There are several barrel makers that make 0.310 barrels which will work fine, But any of the reamer makers can make you a reamer for .308 projectiles. I finally got a set of dies for the 6.5x53R but before that I used Hornady universal neck sizers and Hornady universal bullet seaters, I have them in almost all caliber sizes to do Wildcat work. I also use the Frankford Arsenal universal bullet seater set to do my .30x54R as I still don't have a set of dies for it, I use Peterson brass for that rifle, But I haven't been able to find anymore of it.

I forgot to add, The 6.5x53R brass has to be neck turned because when you neck down the "Lapua" Brass it is too thick and the neck tension is way too much.

 

[Sniperhandle]

Here are all of the Calibers I have done on the Mosin.

6.5x53R, 30-40 Krag Ackley Imp, 6.5 PRC AW2, .30x54R Improved, 7.62x54R Peterson brass, And lastly the 7.65R with Lapua brass. which I am in the middle of building now.

I was very surprised that the 30-40 Krag ackley and the .30x54R imp have almost identical H2O Capacities.

 

[Sniperhandle]

I'm trying to avoid having to keep yet another projectile SKU around, and I'm allergic to the .311" bore diameter. I could definitely keep it in .303, but I'd like to do something cool with it if I could, given that I need a new barrel anyway. Ideally I'd like a .308" or .264" bore.

Last night I learned that 6.5x53r is similar to .303 in case dimensions. I'd need a reamer made with a much shorter lead for Spitzer projectiles, but that seems pretty doable. I could probably use a 6.5x54 M-S sizing die.

I'd love to do 7.62x53r or 7.62x54r with a .308 bore (using D-4297's reamer design) if the case can be made to feed easily. In the same vein as D-4297's solution, I could probably have a .303 reamer redesigned for a .308 bore. But then again, I could probably achieve the same result using a 30-40 Krag chamber with a shortened throat.

Lawndart

The 307 Winchester would be the best choice for you, It extracts very good and you can use a .308 winchester reamer, I use 300 savage loads for mine just to get conservative loads that I don't have to worry about.

 

[Sniperhandle]

Thanks, that's super useful. My dad has a No.4 T but I did not notice that register when looking at it. I'll just plan to use the Bad Ace if I end up scoping the No.4.

I'll use the Hillver if I scope the 2A1.

Not my rifle, But it shows the register machined into the receiver for the front pad.

 

[S11033]

That's a super impressive cartridge lineup. I'd be extremely grateful if you'd be willing to test a few of those in a .303 Brit Enfield mag. The ones I'd be most interested in are 7.62x54 (not improved), .307 Win, 6.5x53r, and 30-40 Krag (not improved).

With the 6.5x53r, did you have the throat shortened? From what I can see online, it looks like standard barrels are throated for Long Lance torpedos...

Lawndart

 

[Sniperhandle]

That's a super impressive cartridge lineup. I'd be extremely grateful if you'd be willing to test a few of those in a .303 Brit Enfield mag. The ones I'd be most interested in are 7.62x54 (not improved), .307 Win, 6.5x53r, and 30-40 Krag (not improved).

With the 6.5x53r, did you have the throat shortened? From what I can see online, it looks like standard barrels are throated for Long Lance torpedos...

Lawndart

The 307 winchester works well, I have a very beautiful standard 30-40 Krag I built on a 1905 No 1 Mark 1 action that feeds perfectly, I did polish the follower to a mirror finish.

The throat on my 6.5.53R is long but I would have to find the print. I don't remember off hand what the specs are. I chambered it on a Brougton 5C barrel 8 twist HV. I chambered the barrel in 2016 but I did not finish the rifle until this year. I finished a whole bunch of projects now that I have more time.

 

[Sniperhandle]

The 54R fits good in the mag, But I doubt they will feed, When I try pushing them out with my thumb, It hangs up on the forward rib. On A Mosin, you cut those forward ribs out of the mag to make other calibers work, You really cant do that with the SMLE mags. Here is a pic with some dummy rounds of 7.62x54R in it. It's a 5rd mag from England for a #4. If you are a good welder, You could most likely cut the ribs out and tig weld in a straight piece of metal and polish it up.

With the 6.5x53r, It's really too high pressure of a round for the SMLE action, On a Mosin when shooting higher pressure rounds it is mandatory to bush the firing pin hole to 0.070 and turn the firing pin to match as you will get pierced primers and broken firing pin springs, Been there done that got the T-shirt, I Bush all of the bolts now.

 

[NZ_Fclass]

My thinking was that I could use the No.32-style pads and side-mount from the No.4 T and L42 or a Bad Ace Tactical mount if I want to make my life easier.

Maybe I'll just import one of those Hillver mounts for my 2A, and match an L42 handguard to the Jungle Carbine-style stock that's on it now.

Lawndart

The 4T mount suits the original scope fine, but eye relief is a problem for modern scopes. Ask me how I know...

 

[Sniperhandle]

That's a super impressive cartridge lineup. I'd be extremely grateful if you'd be willing to test a few of those in a .303 Brit Enfield mag. The ones I'd be most interested in are 7.62x54 (not improved), .307 Win, 6.5x53r, and 30-40 Krag (not improved).

With the 6.5x53r, did you have the throat shortened? From what I can see online, it looks like standard barrels are throated for Long Lance torpedos...

Lawndart

After re-reading your post, I think you are talking about the Dutch 6.5x53R which can be made from 303 british brass, Mine is the Finnish 6.5x53R also known as the 6.5 Vostock, Although mine is my own reamer specs and a long throat, The Vostock shot little stubby lightweight bullets, And is just a necked down 7.62x53R.

These two rounds get confused quite a bit. I do think your #4 could handle the dutch round no problem, But I do not have any of those cartridges to check for you, And finding dies, reamer etc is going to be a problem for you. CH-4D will make dies for you but lead times and price is a factor.

 

[S11033]

Thank you so much, that's extremely valuable information!

I don't know anything about welding, so I'll table the x54r based on your mag feeding test. It feels good to cross options off the list!

Yes, I was referring to the Dutch Mannlicher cartridge, which seems to have very similar external dimensions to the .303. Sorry I hadn't clarified. I think it could be viable because 6.5x54 Mannlicher-Schoenauer reamers and dies can be used, but I'd rather stick to a .308 bore if I can. Making the brass seems like a real pain, and I don't have an annealer right now.

I'm glad to know your 30-40 Krag feeds perfectly. That's my fallback chambering, so it's good to have it reconfirmed first-hand. Brass seems hard to come by at the moment though, so it's not my first choice.

I'm really excited to hear that the .307 Win works! In one of the initial pictures you posted in this thread, I think your .307 Win is wearing a 7.62 NATO conversion magazine, so I just assumed it wouldn't feed from a .303 Brit mag. It only has about 40% of the case taper of the .303 (though that's about double the taper of the 7.62 NATO.) How many .307 Win cartridges will fit in a standard .303 mag? Will it feed smoothly if loaded to capacity?

It seems the .307 may even headspace in a .308 chamber if I headspace off the shoulder. That means I might be able to screw a 2A1 barrel into my No.4, flip the front sight over, and call it a day! I'd obviously check headspace properly, but it seems plausible that it could work off the bat.

This represents some real progress. Thanks again for sharing all this knowledge!

Lawndart