Reaming 7.62 NATO to 7.62x54r

[S11033]

Hey guys, I have a question for people that know about chamber reaming and neck sizes.

I have a sporterized Enfield No.4 that I want to accurize, and I'm trying to avoid having to load .303 Brit. The action is already set up to run rimmed cartridges. I will have to make some tweaks to the magazine, but the bolt shouldn't require any changes.

I have a 7.62 NATO barrel that will fit into the action, but that won't reliably feed and cycle the rimless rounds, which is why I'm looking to the x54r or x54r. I'd like to know if I can ream the barrel to x54r without having to set the chamber back. It looks to me like all dimensions are larger in the x54r up to the case neck, where the NATO is larger. The neck dimension I see for the NATO is .343", whereas it's .336" for the x54r. (Also, keep in mind that x54r dimensions is using a .310" projectile whereas I plan to use a .308".) The neck of the x54r begins 1.657" and ends 2.043" from the breech face. On the NATO, it begins 1.560" and ends 1.863" from the breech face.

I'm very surprised by how much thicker the spec on the NATO case is than the x54r. I'm not going for benchrest accuracy here, since I'll just be using a 4x scope. But I want to get good case life, and don't like the idea of having a sloppy chamber. I assume the NATO chamber probably has some clearance built in already. Can you guys please let me know your thoughts on whether I need to set this barrel back or not? I don't know what a normal clearance is in the neck.

Thanks!

 

[NZ_Fclass]

Interesting...I have seen some converted to 7.62x39, including a P14 with a shortened action and bolt ( should have purchased that one, mainly out of curiosity), but never x54. The No4 was made in 308, and modified to 308 extensively in the UK. Magazines are available on the used market - notably from Gibbs in the USA, but also from Sterling in the UK. They do carry a premium price. The extractor obviously needs modification. Have a look here:

 

[S11033]

Interesting...I have seen some converted to 7.62x39, including a P14 with a shortened action and bolt ( should have purchased that one, mainly out of curiosity), but never x54. The No4 was made in 308, and modified to 308 extensively in the UK. Magazines are available on the used market - notably from Gibbs in the USA, but also from Sterling in the UK. They do carry a premium price. The extractor obviously needs modification. Have a look here:

Yes! The TRs, L39s, and L42s are what inspired this project initially. There's also the Indian Ishapore 2A and 2A1, which are factory-built 7.62 NATO rifles patterned after the No.1 Mk.3 but with stronger receivers.

What I found when I began digging is that Ishapore 2A magazines, and even barrels, can readily be modified to fit the No.4. Surprisingly, the .303 extractors are known to work adequately for 7.62 NATO, at least for someone that doesn't intend to bring the gun onto a two-way range. In fact, many of the converted UK match rifles you mentioned still have .303 extractors.

The problem is that the cases in the 2A mag sit too low in the #4 action to cycle reliably. The dedicated conversion mags you mentioned require slots to be milled in the receiver that allow them to sit higher. They also cost about as much as a full custom barrel, which is why I'm looking into caliber alternatives.

I can chamber a barrel in 30-40 Krag, which is almost identical to the .303 Brit and has a .308" bore, but I think that would be a pretty boring conversion. Then I saw this...



It's a 7.62x54r Enfield found in Iraq. It appears to have a modified PKM barrel and feeds from an SVD magazine. That got me thinking that it would be really cool if I could feed it from a repro PSL mag, mount a PSO, PSOP, PE, or PU scope, and put a PSL (or at least PSL-style) brake on the end of the barrel.

I like taking sporters, and doing weird fantasy builds on them, so I'd like to know if I can take the sporter 2A barrel I've got and just ream it to x54r, or if I'd have to set it back first. Like I mentioned in the original post, the only measurement I'm concerned about is the neck. I wish it had just a little more material in there, but frankly I know very little about chamber dimensions and clearances. I'm hoping someone on here can give me a definitive answer!

Cheers,

Lawndart

PS. That P14 in 7.62x39 sounds super cool. Wish it had followed you home!

 

[NZ_Fclass]

The neck on the x54 is.3353 against the 308, .3433. Brass is obviously thinner. A good drawing is :https://bobp.cip-bobp.org/uploads/tdcc/tab-ii/7-62-x-54-r-en.pdf
I havent checked the SAAMI website for an imperial one. Not do I have a chamber drawing, showing freebore, which I would expect to be longer than NATO cartridges ( dont quote me) but suggest that you contact Dave Manson ( https://mansonreamers.com/catalog/) for a reamer print, which would answer most of the questions. Neck clearance, in a sporter - I like .003-.004. But can be determined by the reamer ( and Dave's expertise!).

 

[Sniperhandle]

I have done many Mil surp conversions and quite a few on SMLE actions. I also did a Mosin in .308x54R, In other words used a 30 caliber barrel from Hart, This rifle has several Long range wins under it's belt. I had the reamer made from Dave Kiff. It uses Lapua brass. I also Built one in .30x54R Improved. And another Mosin in 30-40 Krag AI.
Anyway, Getting on to the SMLE conversion, I built one on a #4 Action in .308 Winchester and used a Sterling 7.62 Nato Mag, I also sourced a 7.62 Extractor from an L42 in England, This rifle shoots very small groups, I have re-worked the factory trigger to 12 ounces which is about as far as you can get with it. In the end I wound up using 307 Winchester brass for this rifle as it worked the best. 307 Winchester is just a 308 with a rim for lever action rifles. I will include a couple of pics. People have a hard time believing you bring home the bacon at a match with some of these 75 to 100 year old rifles I show up with.

I have machined tools to true up all of the different mil surp actions and I true the bolt faces and lugs and bush the firing pin holes on many of them.

I believe the chamber would clean up on the .308 going to 7.62x54R.

 

[Sniperhandle]

.30x54R improved mosin. Platinum gray cerakote, TKIV-85 Highly modified sniper rifle stock I bought from Finland.

 

[S11033]

This is awesome, thank you!

Have you found any cartridges that feed reliably from the No.4 magazine without modification other than the 30-40 Krag? I've heard mixed reports on whether the 7.62x54r will work or not.

I also have a sporterized 2A that I could use. Do you know if a No.4 forestock will fit on a 2A (No.1 pattern)? I'd also like to know if an No.4 T -style scope mount could be mounted to my 2A. I definitely want to keep the retro look!

Lawndart

 

[Sniperhandle]

This is awesome, thank you!

Have you found any cartridges that feed reliably from the No.4 magazine without modification other than the 30-40 Krag? I've heard mixed reports on whether the 7.62x54r will work or not.

I also have a sporterized 2A that I could use. Do you know if a No.4 forestock will fit on a 2A (No.1 pattern)? I'd also like to know if an No.4 T -style scope mount could be mounted to my 2A. I definitely want to keep the retro look!

Lawndart

#4 forends will not fit, They can be modified to work, But it's not worth the hassle. I have been wanting to do a 7.62x54R on a #4 action as they are quite a bit stronger than people give them credit for. I can't tell you if the feeding will work or not? anything can be made to feed if you spend enough time figuring it out and making mods. I am building a 7x65R on a mosin for next years long range matches and I have worked over the magazine and the rec extensively to get it to work, I was going to do a single shot, But I accepted the challenge and I have almost cracked the code, It's sitting idle right now because I had to rebuild my bridgeport clone and I just finished getting it going again, It started with a broken drum switch and I just kept going from there, It should be good for another 30 years now, It was made in Taiwan in 1988 and is branded "AMURA" Which I have been told was a "Mori Seiki" Company. Anyway I will show a few pics of building up the front of the mag with weld and then milling it out and reshaping the feed ramp because the cartridge is much longer. I thought I had more pics, But "Bill Gates" Fu@#%$^& up my pictures!

 

[Sniperhandle]

more

 

[Sniperhandle]

The main thing I would say is, Don't even mess with the old barrel, The barrel is the heart of the rifle, If it's good then you will have something worth the time and effort, If it's crap, Well you wasted your time. I can buy whatever custom action I would like, I just don't see the fun in that, Some people I have shot long range with have been dumbfounded by these old Mosins. The mosin is an inherently accurate action, Mosin's have a floating bolt head that gives this very strong action it's ability to shoot very well. No, Savage wasn't the first.

I do have a fetish for Sako Trg rifles, I have several of them, Anything Finnish I love!

 

[S11033]

#4 forends will not fit, They can be modified to work, But it's not worth the hassle. I have been wanting to do a 7.62x54R on a #4 action as they are quite a bit stronger than people give them credit for. I can't tell you if the feeding will work or not? anything can be made to feed if you spend enough time figuring it out and making mods. I am building a 7x65R on a mosin for next years long range matches and I have worked over the magazine and the rec extensively to get it to work, I was going to do a single shot, But I accepted the challenge and I have almost cracked the code, It's sitting idle right now because I had to rebuild my bridgeport clone and I just finished getting it going again, It started with a broken drum switch and I just kept going from there, It should be good for another 30 years now, It was made in Taiwan in 1988 and is branded "AMURA" Which I have been told was a "Mori Seiki" Company. Anyway I will show a few pics of building up the front of the mag with weld and then milling it out and reshaping the feed ramp because the cartridge is much longer. I thought I had more pics, But "Bill Gates" Fu@#%$^& up my pictures!

Any chance I could ask you to check and see if loading x54r into your .303 mag works? I’d really appreciate it if you could. I’m going to be out of town for the next few months and don’t have access to my rifles

 

[S11033]

The main thing I would say is, Don't even mess with the old barrel, The barrel is the heart of the rifle, If it's good then you will have something worth the time and effort, If it's crap, Well you wasted your time. I can buy whatever custom action I would like, I just don't see the fun in that, Some people I have shot long range with have been dumbfounded by these old Mosins. The mosin is an inherently accurate action, Mosin's have a floating bolt head that gives this very strong action it's ability to shoot very well. No, Savage wasn't the first.

I do have a fetish for Sako Trg rifles, I have several of them, Anything Finnish I love!

Totally agreed. For an L42-style build, I definitely need a new custom barrel.

But I also have a No.4 that’s in its military configuration, except someone hacked the barrel off just in front of the front sight base. I want to have at least one that’s close to being in its military configuration. That’s the build I was considering re-chambering a 7.62 NATO 2A barrel for.

In addition to that, I have a sporterized 2A that I’m not in love with, and would also be interested to reshuffle. If nothing else, I want to do something cooler with the wood, and maybe add some kind of retro-looking optic.

So I guess this caliber conversion project touches a few different actions, and I may not have been clear about what exactly I’m trying to do in my posts above.

I definitely want to find out what calibers will load from a .303 mag with minimal modification though.

Lawndart

 

[D-4297]

PM sent . If you don't get it for some reason , let me know . I'll re-send .

 

[Sniperhandle]

Totally agreed. For an L42-style build, I definitely need a new custom barrel.

But I also have a No.4 that’s in its military configuration, except someone hacked the barrel off just in front of the front sight base. I want to have at least one that’s close to being in its military configuration. That’s the build I was considering re-chambering a 7.62 NATO 2A barrel for.

In addition to that, I have a sporterized 2A that I’m not in love with, and would also be interested to reshuffle. If nothing else, I want to do something cooler with the wood, and maybe add some kind of retro-looking optic.

So I guess this caliber conversion project touches a few different actions, and I may not have been clear about what exactly I’m trying to do in my posts above.

I definitely want to find out what calibers will load from a .303 mag with minimal modification though.

Lawndart

The biggest problem with the SMLE is the lack of good optics mounts, I'm getting older now and I can't see the iron sights anymore and they never were a thing for me anyway, I have imported quite few sets of "Hilver Mounts" And rings from Australia and they are similar looking to a Redfield style base except the rings are mounted over a stud and front and rear rings are windage adjustable. Tasco also imported the Hilver rings and bases under the "Tasco World Class" Brand and once in a while you will stumble across a Tasco SMLE mount if you get lucky, I have used those too. Millett made a mount for the #4 #5 Smle rifles and they are ok, But kind of cheezy, They are hollow underneath and the ring retention screws on the rear strip easily if over-tightened. And then there is a company in Canada making Pic rails which I have not tried and the only reason I have not tried them is they sit too high up above the receiver. These guns can be made pretty accurate if you cut a very tight chamber to begin with because the rear locking lugs will stretch on you, Try to start out on the No 4 action with a "0" Bolt head, They come in different lengths starting at zero and going up.

Always wanted to do a 2A but haven't ran across one that has been cut up, I call these "Choppers" and I am always looking for guns that have been chopped..

 

[Sniperhandle]

PM sent . If you don't get it for some reason , let me know . I'll re-send .

I'm not sure who you sent the PM to?

 

[D-4297]

I'm not sure who you sent the PM to?

Hopefully it was sent to the OP .

 

[Sniperhandle]

The fact that you saw that smle with a svd mag in it tells you that the 54R won't readily work, But if I get a minute I will check for you.

 

[S11033]

Hopefully it was sent to the OP .

Seen, thank you very much!

Did you guys consider the 7.62x53r before making the custom reamer? If so, is it usable off the shelf, or would I better off with your custom one?

Really appreciate the input y’all.

 

[S11033]

The fact that you saw that smle with a svd mag in it tells you that the 54R won't readily work, But if I get a minute I will check for you.

Thanks a lot. I could do some mill work on the mag if opening it up slightly in certain dimensions made it work…

 

[Sniperhandle]

Seen, thank you very much!

Did you guys consider the 7.62x53r before making the custom reamer? If so, is it usable off the shelf, or would I better off with your custom one?

Really appreciate the input y’all.

I usually call Kiff and tell him what I am trying to do and he comes up with a plan. But PTG has gotten so screwed up in the last few years I stopped ordering from them.