Interesting thread on carbon removal on another forum

[whatsupdoc]

Erik Cortina uses CLR., My 500 HP LS2 11.5-1 compression 90,000 miles the carbon came right off the pistons with a green scrubby and WD-40

Raise the compression a bit and try it again.

Rifle = Flame temp: 6457 F 60,000 PSI
Engine= Flame temp: 2600 F 1,500 PSI

 

[DShortt]

What just happened? I thought this was a thread about carbon in barrels, not engines.

 

[Eraser]

3M scrubby pad and WD-40 took carbon of the tops of the pistons with ease!

Ok.
Do the 'scrubby pads' have different abrasive levels, like fine, medium, course?
What did you use or recommend for a rifle?

 

[cmysix]

from my understanding , YES depending on the color, different levels of abrasiveness, 3M have a color chart. green and blue is the most common around the house. but they have many different levels.

Raise the compression a bit and try it again.

Rifle = Flame temp: 6457 F 60,000 PSI
Engine= Flame temp: 2600 F 1,500 PSI

you may be right, but from my experience and others as soon as the WD-40 or Kroil soaks into the carbon, WA-LA and redo your calculation to include that my piston is 4 inches in diameter and when the piston is in it's upper most position there's only about 40 thousands of space between the piston and the head. and in an hour it's done it more times then you will probably pull a trigger in your life.

 

[Bugs]

Here is a pic of two stainless tuner brakes, both cleaned in a heated ultrasonic cleaner. One using water, a splash of vinegar and a squirt of dawn detergent, the other using a 50% solution of CLR for about 6-8 minutes. Guess which is which

 

[Sandstorm]

CLR works for me...better than most anyhow and nothings perfect. Ya still gotta
use the bronze brushes too.

 

[moondog]

from my understanding , YES depending on the color, different levels of abrasiveness, 3M have a color chart. green and blue is the most common around the house. but they have many different levels.

you may be right, but from my experience and others as soon as the WD-40 or Kroil soaks into the carbon, WA-LA and redo your calculation to include that my piston is 4 inches in diameter and when the piston is in it's upper most position there's only about 40 thousands of space between the piston and the head. and in an hour it's done it more times then you will probably pull a trigger in your life.

The back of an exhaust valve would be a better indicator of the carbon in a throat. No amount of "soaking" will get it off.

 

[Sandstorm]

Soak the exhaust valve for 3 days in CLR...youl be surprised.

 

[moondog]

Soak the exhaust valve for 3 days in CLR...youl be surprised.

I have, no bueno

 

[Andrev]

In this day and age, I would think the science and data is established regarding carbon removal for center fire rifle cleaning. That's not to say that there won't always be a controversy regarding cleaning especially with the advent of bore scopes but the availability of high-quality solvents on the market today should put some damper of this issue. The following discussion pertains to CARBON removal issues only.

In my humble opinion, if you simply use performance results (i.e., shots on target) as a measure of the effectiveness of your cleaning procedure then you shouldn't have to anguish over which is the "best" solvent / procedure.

For example, for probably 30 years I used Shooter's Choice with a bronze brush and was completely satisfied with the results on paper. Prior to that in my early days of shooting in the 60 and early 70's, I used Hoppe's No, 9** like everyone else I knew.

The only reason I switched about 3 years ago from Shooter's Choice was because the odor became offensive to a family member. So, after some research, I switched to Bore Tech C4, carbon remover plus a bronze brush which is odorless and supposedly non-toxic.

Did my rifles shoot better or worse? No. The only thing that improved was I got rid of the offensive odor but at a cost of a higher price for my cleaning solvent. I will say, the patches come out significantly blacker with C4, but I haven't noticed any change in on paper.

**Quite honestly, I didn't experience any difference on paper between old Hoppe's 9 and Shooter's Choice. But like a lot of young shooters, I read gun magazines in those days which "warned" that Hoppe's alone was inadequate because it didn't remove copper. So, as a "herd" animal, I switched to Shooter's Choice, a supposedly "dual purpose" cleaner which contains ammonia thus the "necessary" copper remover additive. However, I didn't experience any change in performance but stuck with Shooter's Choice, "just in case". After all, why did I know, I'm just a precision varmint hunter not an "expert".

My View exactly, but that is what makes the world economy turn over. Otherwise we would still be driving Model T Fords, could actually be a good idea!!

 

[Jeff Porter]

If you dont mind the cancer and legal ramificaitons of possession, Carbon tetrachloride and Benzene should get rid of carbon.

 

[K22]

My View exactly, but that is what makes the world economy turn over. Otherwise we would still be driving Model T Fords, could actually be a good idea!!

I get that, and I'm not opposed to trying something new so it's a good point you made. I just hate change but that's a personal flaw.

 

[Ned Ludd]

There is no solvent known to man that will remove hard carbon fouling without also harming the barrel steel unless some kind of mechanical action such as a bronze brush or abrasives are also used. There certainly are solvents/liquids that will break up hard carbon, but they're generally not going to be very kind to the barrel steel, either. For example, concentrated nitric acid, which is a strongly oxidizing acid, will actually break up and dissolve hard carbon, but I wouldn't recommend using it to clean a barrel even if someone actually had access to it.

I've tried CLR on an old barrel, it did little more than water in my hands as far as removing hard carbon fouling. In a freshly fouled barrel, even a few drops of plain tap water on a patch will remove lots of loose carbon fouling. However, that is misleading and doesn't mean tap water is a good solvent for hard carbon; it isn't because loose carbon deposits are not difficult to remove at all. Likewise, CLR didn't even begin to touch hard carbon in my hands. In the last year or so, I have been using Free All penetrating oil to get at more stubborn hard carbon deposits in the first few inches of the barrel throat. By itself, Free All doesn't appear to do anything to hard carbon. However, it does wonders in terms of the amount of black stuff that comes out after a few strokes of a bronze brush in between wet patches of Free All.

 

[Eraser]

If you dont mind the cancer and legal ramificaitons of possession, Carbon tetrachloride and Benzene should get rid of carbon.

While not trying to hijack, I'd like to comment on-
Carbon Tetrachloride.
That brings back a lot of memories. When I was young, you could buy it at the local drug store, no kidding. I had a 1954 Harley Pan Head, that leaked motor oil into the clutch pack. It would get so bad that when I tried to kick start the engine the clutches would slip, the engine wouldn't turnover, and you were done.
Out came the clutches into a bath of the Carbon Tetrachloride. A good soaking, and a little hand rubbing, (yes hand rubbing) and I was good to go again for awhile
At the local drug store no less. How times have changed.

 

[DawidB]

I have either had, or had access to a bore scope for over 20 years. My first experience was when I was sent one to write about. Of course I was quite interested in the condition of my rifle bores. As it turns out, they were fine. For pretty much everything, once I find something that works very well, I stop looking. What would be the point? Having said all of that, I am still a big fan of bore scopes because I have found that a lot of shooters are not getting the results that I do, and for them, one of the new, inexpensive Teslongs is an invaluable learning aid. On the subject, of carbon fouling and its metamorphosed version, hard carbon, I have had great success using IOSSO, when extensive brushing with a tight fitting bronze brush and solvent has failed to get the job done (Most of the time it does.). Recently, I have tested and am quite impressed with the products that I believe were developed as a cooperative effort between Chris Harris (owner of Bullet Central) and IOSSO, called Thorroclean, and its companion product Thorroflush. They have been great to work with and have really gotten the job done. My tests were done on dirty worn test barrels that had been sitting around after they were given to me. Using my new (least expensive) Teslong has given the advantage of being able to document and share my results quite easily. I plug it into a USB port on my desktop and the requisite software (Camera) is included as a part of Windows 10. I take still pictures or videos at the click of my mouse.

Agree 100%! Of all the 'new best option' that I have used over time, and even including my trusted and proven JB paste, Thorroclean is by far the best product I have ever used. I will not use anything else again.

 

[Ray Gross]

Raise the compression a bit and try it again.

Rifle = Flame temp: 6457 F 60,000 PSI
Engine= Flame temp: 2600 F 1,500 PSI

Plus the carbon being mechanically pressed into the barrel wall by each passing bullet

 

[Kracken McGraw]

Agree 100%! Of all the 'new best option' that I have used over time, and even including my trusted and proven JB paste, Thorroclean is by far the best product I have ever used. I will not use anything else again.

Sir, would you mind sharing how you use the Thorroclean products in your barrels?
I guess I’m asking how many patch strokes and or brush and to when you use the flush in between the processes. Thanks.

 

[std7mag]

Ok, so what will safely remove carbon from a muzzle brake that has been Ceracoated?

The tan Ceracoat on my Mark V's muzzle brake shows carbon in a hurry!

 

[moondog]

I've been tumbling using the stainless pins.
Just protect the threads

 

[rebs]

CLR and a brush

can CLR be used on a blued steel barrel or only stainless-steel barrel ?