Sizing New Nosler Brass

[archerforkids]

I worked up loads for my son 2 weeks ago for a 28 Nosler he bought/had built. With the bullet he selected and the new Nosler brass he gave me to work with, I ran into an interesting "challenge".
If I pressed the bullets in as is I would at best only have a couple of thousands neck tension. This concerned me with a potentially high recoiling rifle. So I ordered a bushing that would put me at 5 to 6 thousands tension. This was based on dimensions of a measured loaded round.
Bushing arrives and I set everything set up appropriately. To my surprise I only gained another 1.5 to 2 thousands tension. I'm now at 3 to 4 thousands tension at best. I only gained 1.5 to 2 thousands tension. It was like this brass had been fired already several times and not annealed.
Has anybody run into this before?

 

[RegionRat]

I would not be surprised, but I don't use unknown brass for context like a 28 NOS or anything close to it.

Playing with stuff like this is best done when you are young and poor with cheap surplus. By the time you are playing with 28 Nosler or expensive brass like Weatherby, etc., you should have some experience or it will take a big check book.

I would suggest a couple of pointers. It is worth the trouble to inspect the ID of your bushings. Too many have been sold that are not close to what they are marked.

If you are going to put effort into a load development, it is worth good quality matched sets of virgin brass or brass once fired from that chamber to reduce the dispersion in the history and condition of the necks.

It is also worth considering the capability to measure seating force if you are having trouble. You should pay attention to details like annealing and ID chamfer. Take a study of each bushing diameter and the effect on seating force independently and then decide if you have a good starting point for group testing.

Depending on the bushing and condition of the necks, you can be seeing errors due to the hardness of the neck, or the step size of the bushing. There is always a ratio of elastic and yield work going on with neck sizing and more with firing cycles.

If you have an annealing capability, and you can measure seating forces, you can use a small set of say five samples of brass over and over with each bushing to see if you really have control. Then pick a good starting value and test live fire on small sets. YMMV

 

[archerforkids]

Unfortunately I doubt we spring for an inline seater die. Wont be able to che k seating force obviously.
We shot 15 rounds are so and got good results. Sub MOA out to 300 yards. I repeatedly checked COAL during the process on rounds from the magazine to verify no bullet "unseating" which was my primary concern. I have a couple of more bushings on order to make me feel a little better about good grip for hunting purposes.
In response to your comment about verification of bushing diameter, I did verify I had what I wanted.
I'm awful tempted to go ahead if this happens again and anneal the brass before I go further.
For what it's worth, at 3.75 a pop I'd like to think we didn't go cheap on the brass.
Thanks for the input.

 

[6BRA]

What's your resizer die? Pull the expander ball...Will that give you enough tension? Do you have 2 resizers? Or just the bushing die?

 

[archerforkids]

I pulled the expander ball. I only had one bushing. That's my fault for not ordering more sizes. I figured for hunting as long as I landed 5 to 6 thousands under I would be good to go. In all honesty, I've never had this happen before.
I only have the bushing die.

 

[Coyotefurharvester]

I have not had any bolt gun(up to 338wm) move the bullet in or out from recoil with 0.002 neck interference. If you are using bullets with a cannelure, you can put a light crimp on with most seating dies. For convenience the brass will need to be the same length. When you size the brass, leave the brass in the bushing for 5-10 seconds(time based on how the brass takes the sizing of the bushing).

 

[RegionRat]

We shot 15 rounds are so and got good results. Sub MOA out to 300 yards.

You got sub MOA to 300 yards with a hunting rig... what I would wonder is... what is the problem with this?

 

[Dusty Stevens]

If youve measured your neck over a seated bullet, then got a verified size bushing .004-.005 under that, theres not much more that you can do. Most folks that anneal do it every firing, so its definitely not going to hurt to get em all

 

[archerforkids]

I have not had any bolt gun(up to 338wm) move the bullet in or out from recoil with 0.002 neck interference. If you are using bullets with a cannelure, you can put a light crimp on with most seating dies. For convenience the brass will need to be the same length. When you size the brass, leave the brass in the bushing for 5-10 seconds(time based on how the brass takes the sizing of the bushing).

I'll have to try this suggestion next go round.
Thanks for the feedback folks.

 

[Sandstorm]

anneal do it every firing,

This right here Sir..

 

[JFrank]

The brass has to yield at some point, I use Nosler brass, never had a problem sizing or holding a bullet. If you want more hold’ annealing will take you the opposite direction. For myself 3-4 thousand under a loaded should be plenty of hold.
What does the target tell you ?

I worked up loads for my son 2 weeks ago for a 28 Nosler he bought/had built. With the bullet he selected and the new Nosler brass he gave me to work with, I ran into an interesting "challenge".
If I pressed the bullets in as is I would at best only have a couple of thousands neck tension. This concerned me with a potentially high recoiling rifle. So I ordered a bushing that would put me at 5 to 6 thousands tension. This was based on dimensions of a measured loaded round.
Bushing arrives and I set everything set up appropriately. To my surprise I only gained another 1.5 to 2 thousands tension. I'm now at 3 to 4 thousands tension at best. I only gained 1.5 to 2 thousands tension. It was like this brass had been fired already several times and not annealed.
Has anybody run into this before?

 

[Ray123]

I only bought Nosler brass once...years ago so I don't know the quality of it today....but I never used it again. But like many of their other products.
I don't consider the 7 mags as heavy recoiling, but that doesn't mean it can't be a problem. I used the 7mm Remington mag for years with no problem with normal neck tension and in many loads you're only increasing the powder charge less than 10 grains....not a big deal. Have you actually loaded and shot them out of your magazine to see if there is a problem? Just being concerned doesn't mean its a problem. A Lee factory crimp die if made in that caliber might be helpful if there's a problem. And annealing the necks would help, so you don't get as much spring back in the neck. I shoot 338 416, and 50BMG with no worries of bullets setting back with normal neck tension, with standard dies. The only time I ever had a problem was with Redding neck bushing dies, and too many firings on the case...and bullet pull was highly variable, and spring back so much you could pull some of tbe bullets with your fingers, but others seated more firmly... so for those dies I machine my own bushings in the lathe to get what I want. Have a friend with a RCBS 28 Nosler FL sizing die, try a few cases in there, FL sized, to see if neck tension improves.

 

[GetReal]

Sounds like "spring back."

I'd guess to anneal the brass.

 

[archerforkids]

All welcome info. Thanks again