I stumbled across Darrel Holland's Youtube video the other day on his Gold Standard bullet comparator. After I watched it I had to have one. I have tried the others and was never really happy with trying to keep everything in line & trying to get a good reading. His is on the horizontal plane rather than vertical, which to me and my use makes it so much easier to use. Check out his video.
MY NEW BULLET SORTING COMPARTOR
- Thread starter Pawnee Bill
- Start date
Since he didn't really show how consistent it might be, I would have like to have seen him remeasure some of them to see if he got the same results (like, take all the +1's and see if they all still measure as +1's). Otherwise, I don't see how it'd really be any different from the vertical ones. . . ???
SINCLAIR INTERNATIONAL BULLET SORTING STAND WITH DIAL INDICATOR
Il Sinclair Bullet Sorting Stand con base in granito nero offre precisione nella classificazione dei proiettili e un indicatore a quadrante per un facile utilizzo.
So I get it ... you sort a whole bunch of bullets and put them into five piles. But then what? Do you throw away anything that isn't "zero"? Do you only load like-size bullets for groups? Do you adjust seating depth for those couple of thousandth's? I understand that you "can" do this. I'm just unconvinced that the difference ends up being material for anyone other than world-class competitors.
Because seating depth IS material (.003 difference can make a significant difference on paper and why load development ladders often use such a difference), I try to maintain a seating depth that I determined works well in my gun. So, I sort bullets . . . but not base to ogive. I sort base to seating stem contact point in piles that are +/- .001 (which I feel is "material" enough). When one pile is used up, I adjust my seating die for the difference from the previous pile so that the seating depth is the same. Seating depth is not adjusted, but is maintained for all the bullets regardless of what the jump might be.
jvw2008
Lose the Second and we lose them all.
It’s faster because the horizontal bullet holder automatically does a consistent alignment - no fiddling to get the comparator lined up with the indicator. And at least in my hands equally or more repeatable. I will never go back to the vertical system. This can also be used to get bullet OAL quickly by using a properly sized plug or bolt in the end.Since he didn't really show how consistent it might be, I would have like to have seen him remeasure some of them to see if he got the same results (like, take all the +1's and see if they all still measure as +1's). Otherwise, I don't see how it'd really be any different from the vertical ones. . . ???
SINCLAIR INTERNATIONAL BULLET SORTING STAND WITH DIAL INDICATOR
Il Sinclair Bullet Sorting Stand con base in granito nero offre precisione nella classificazione dei proiettili e un indicatore a quadrante per un facile utilizzo.www.brownells.it
Yeah, alignment was as issue when I first started using my Sinclair sorting stand. But, that was an easy fix by attaching a slice of angle iron like plastic to the block so that the comparator simply slips into place and is consistently lined up in the same way as with this horizontal tool.
I would like to see how consistent the readings are measuring the same bullet 5 times. Being horizontal really doesn't help with self centering like a vertical set up.
Just curious is all.
Paul
Just curious is all.
Paul
Jerry Wick
Silver $$ Contributor
Yes, both actually. Sort to the point where the ogive touches your throat, and then sort those by the point where the seating stem touches the bullet. It seems like this would be the only way to get perfect seating consistency.
There probably won't be many people that want to go through all that sorting though.
What we need is a seating stem that mimics the throat contact point in the barrel.
YES! You’re on good track.
Indeed, most of us focus on the ogive thinking that is where we expect the bullet to engage the rifling. But, the seating stem sets the actual location of the base and ogive.
In principe, using a consistent stem to base measurement to seating depth ensures a more consistent base to case head distance. The challenge is that some seating stems engage the bullet nearer to the tip than to the ogive.
It would be nice to see a seating stem that engages the bullet closer to the ogive. That would make both the base and the jump variations more consisrent.
There might be a reason we don’t see them. Any ideas?
You can use a Hole Gage to measuring your seating stem and any compartor hole.
My SS contacts a 103 gr VLD near the .172 mark soooo rather than a .24 cal comparator bushing should I order a .17 cal bushing ?
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Seating stems actually do engage bullets on their ogive; ogive being that part from the bearing surface to the meplat. It's just a different part of the ogive than where our comparators touch, which is just above the bearing surface close to where the bullets first touches the rifling. I think you meant to say you'd like the seating stem to engage closer to the bearing surface, much like comparators do??? Distance to the lands variations are really not of much importance (like, jump is always changing anyway) unless one is seating to touch or jam, it's the seating depth consistency that is really important.
Typically, there are significant differences in BTO's just as there is from the base to the seating stem contact point measurements. And because jump isn't really that important, I don't see where a seating stem that engages close to the bearing surface as having any advantage. Such a seating stem would probably need to be highly customized give the these variations as well as variation in the shape of ogives. The seating stems available are pretty universal for the most part to accommodate the variety of bullets within a particular caliber. Anyway . . . these are my ideas.
Thanks!
Yes, I meant that the stem should engage closer to the point where the rifling eng ages the lands. Possibly even be cut mwith a reamer identical to the throat of the chamber.
Also, can you expand on the comment “jump isn't really that important”? Folks have done. a lot of work and shots at the bench to get the optimum jump. They might be unhappy to learn that effort wasn’t needed.
Yes, I meant that the stem should engage closer to the point where the rifling eng ages the lands. Possibly even be cut mwith a reamer identical to the throat of the chamber.
Also, can you expand on the comment “jump isn't really that important”? Folks have done. a lot of work and shots at the bench to get the optimum jump. They might be unhappy to learn that effort wasn’t needed.
I used to have one of these tools until I realized that with the bullets I was using, bullet base to ogive did not matter on target in my discipline. Ogive to lands is way more important to me.
When I started precision shooting and precision loading, I heard a lot about "optimum jump" and so when I developed a load that really worked well, I tried to maintain the jump where that was working well. But, the throat erodes and it doesn't take long until I would have to adjust the jump to keep up with the throat erosion. It didn't take long until my adjustments to the jump would not produce the good results I had to start with. I'd have to go through a whole new load development, adjusting the powder load. to where it'd work well again. I was "chasing the lands".
Then I heard several top competitive shooters talk about how they'd do there load development and once their seating depth was found for their load, they would not change it for the life of the barrel to maintain their accuracy. How can that be if "optimum jump" is so important? If they're keeping the their seating depth fixed as the throat erodes, the jump becomes longer and longer over the life of the barrel, yet their cartridge remains good. The more I learned about barrel harmonics, the more it made sense to keep seating depth fixed to keep the barrel tuned barrel time in relation to the sine wave was what's really important with the harmonics. Trying to maintain "optimum jump" simply changes that relationship.
Though these top competitive shooters said this about seating depth, it's in my nature to have to test it and try and actually experience it. For over 2,000 rounds I kept my seating depth static as my .308 throat eroded over .033 and I kept getting great results from that load the entire time. Now, I'll decide on a starting point somewhere off lands (typically around .015 off the lands or to mag max) to start my load development. For my load development, I simply don't pay any attention the distance to the lands. Though there are times that the load needs adjustment, like when there's significant changes in ambient temperatures, I'll still maintain the same seating depth, but will make little changes in the powder load and often focusing on ES's.
Very often, when reloaders refer to setting their jump, they're really talking about setting their seating depth. But, all the talk in the various forums with references to mostly talking about setting jumps, really masks what's really important . . . seating depth. It's like with load development where making adjustments in increments, like .003 or .005) is suggested, it's often talked about in terms of adjustments to jump rather than seating depth.
Here's an example in YouTube of a top shooter talking about keep his seating depth fixed (start at ~19:33) :
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